No, I haven't been hired by a French employer - don't be silly now!
I was talking to someone in the park, who said that because his wife started only this year at her employer, she can't have any annual leave during this year (which runs til end May for annual leave purposes) - then for the next June-May 12 month period she'll get only 14 days (having worked only 5-6 months so far) - she'll have to wait until 2015 to get a full year's leave entitlement.
Is this universal? This means that a new employee would have to work for up to a year with no leave AT ALL, or have a reduced amount of leave for both their first part year and the next full year.
By contrast, an employee in the UK who starts 6 months into the annual leave year would get 1/2 the annual leave entitlement immediately.
Being more "cool" in the UK, if the worst came to the worse and the employee left or was sacked having taken too much leave, their pay would just be docked at the end. I guess in France even powerful employers will leave nothing to chance.
Just like everyone else, they seem to look to control the unforseeable, at the other party's expense, and "tant pis" if they don't like it.
Someone, tell me my friend's wife has a draconian employer, and this isn't another depressing inevitability to look forward to should I attain the "holy grail" (poison chalice) of being integrated French?
I'm probably saying what other people may have said Jacquie but my wife (as the only one of us who has worked in a "corporate" environment says:
when I first worked at a major international bank I joined in October - just after pay day, which was the 18th of the month. Not only was I not allowed an allowance on my salary, I was told that the only day's leave I was entitled to, having joined just after the middle of October, was the Christmas Shopping Day that all staff were entitled to, whatever their length of service.
She's not that old - 51 last March. She got a day's leave as you would for a funeral because she had to go to Germany with her ex and his dad for the last oktoberfest ever at an RAF base. She just can't remember what this sort of leave used to be. Can anyone help?
lol point taken, and i was thinking that was abit soft maby its just me but i still have a lot of my uk friends on facebook and they really find it hard when i tell them the truth about the way uk is being run, now they seem to live in a bubble with tinted pink glasses on and god help them if thay step out of line,but that is another story.
Not a lot of people know this you can put 3 dates in for your holidays they can refuse the frist 2 but have to accept the 3rd.
also as we are not french we can take 3 or more weeks off at a time some companys dont not like people taking more off in one hit but as we are not french the law says we can the arabes were i work use this all the time as that go back home to see family so it will work for us as well.
Andrew - we encourage people to express their opinions but you cannot make personal attacks such as your "you're mad" comment as these contravene our T&C.
plz do tell my were i whent over the top i dont hink i did, i dont like the way the uk is being run and thats my right and i dont like people that think france should be like the uk, the worker in france has some very cool rights aginst his boss and the boss can not just do what he likes and i feel that the members on this site should know about that.
and you were wrong to delete me post but then it your site you can be the internet Police if you like.
I remember this from when I arrived in France, almost 30 years ago. It seemed to be up to the personnel department about how flexible they were. I started working for one company in February and managed to negotiate one week's unpaid leave in the summer, but they refused to allow me to take any more. "Collective bargaining" or trades unions had nothing to do with it! It seems absolutely unfair that one can be threatened with dismissal for wanting to take unpaid leave to honour holiday arrangements made before joining the company.
Because of the holiday entitlement rules, many people who change jobs ensure that they take a certain amount of their annual leave during the summer, leaving several other weeks that are paid as untaken holiday entitlement when they leave they company. The holiday year seems to run from January to December, so starting a job part way though the year means that you'll only accrue holiday leave pro rata for the number of months worked in that year.
Flexibility does seem to be creeping into the system, but it seems the smaller the company, the less flexible the system.
Yup - Not had proper holiday for ages here :-( Sadly things in our little company are dictate by the Comptable. Any non compliance with the rules and the employer will be subjected to a visit from the 'inspecteur du travail' - which apparently makes an OFSTEAD inspection seem like a trip to Disney.
And make sure she knows of the 'Saturday rule.'
Depending how leave is calculated, if she takes off a Friday, she'll have to take the Saturday off too. So instead of using one day of leave, she *has* to take two.
Oh and if she say takes off a Thursday, but the Friday is a holiday, the the Saturday has to be taken too.
Andrew - I am removing your post as it breaches our "dinner party" code of conduct. As you seem unfamiliar with this, I suggest you read the Netiquette page before posting again. Thanks.
That is certainly what I've heard. No paid holiday for the first 12 months. I think it's shocking really. How can you work to full capacity without some time off to relax and recuperate?
This is the norm in many companies where there are no collective bargaining agreements, or where the owners are not progressive. It was certainly the case in my first job in France, I remember taking unpaid leave at the time in my first year with them. More progressive companies allow you 2.5 days leave per calendar month worked, so a new employee could take up to 2.5 days off paid leave after the first month of work. Obviously, over the year this builds up to the full complement. Don't forget that many large companies also have the ridiculous collective bargaining agreements forced upon employers under the 35 hour working week laws, which also force employees to take time off even if they don't want it or can't manage it with regard to their workload or responsibilities. Note, however, that many small private sector firms have little, or no 35 hour working week arrangements (despite being against the law). As an employer, finding equitable solutions that won't end you up in court is very difficult - this is my rationale for not hiring anyone for my own current business here, and will remain that way until France "gets a grip" on the reality of the world of employment as it is today outside of its little bubble.
Note also that the public sector (including education, the post office, etc) is one of the worst offenders for abusing current employment law regulations with the use of contract and vacataire workers ! These employers almost never end up in court on the wrong end of an employment tribunal's wrath.
Far as I know it's universal. On my french contract that is exactly how it was. On the bonus side when I left I had a full year of back holiday paid out to me.
UK companies have even started to only give proportionate leave from what I gather and in a few cases give none until a full year is worked. Things are not what they used to be :-( It is all rationalised by the crisis and also people on zero hours contracts have no entitlement at all ever anyway, so do not make any comparison with what some of us remember. In fact it looks like the differences are gradually all vanishing. What a grey world it is becoming.