I am in a panic. I am due to move out of my apartment this Wednesday, having sold all my furniture - last few things being picked up today. The Acte de Vente was to be signed on Thursday 24th, I was going to arrange to transfer the sale money next week, to my UK bank, through a currency broker, who I've already paid a deposit to at a "forward exchange rate" (so will lose the deposit if the balance isn't paid by 8th August). I've then booked up travel to leave France on Friday 1st August. I have also had an offer accepted on an apartment in Edinburgh, with the moving in date of 15th August. This morning, 4 days before the signing, the Notaire's have emailed to casually say that the signing can't be this Thursday 24th July, as the buyer's contract with his bank is not ready, and they will contact me when this is sorted out.
I can't believe this is happening - is it normal to do this in France, at the last moment, when obviously a seller will have had to make all sorts of complicated plans for travel, transporting belongings etc. well before a few days before moving. I could end up losing a great deal of money, which I can't afford, and also the flat I've bought.
I'd appreciate any advice and to know if this has happened to anyone else. Many thanks.
Thanks Kate - I arrived in Edinburgh today to lovely, warm, sunny weather. I was supposed to pick up keys to my new place here next Friday 15th, but in fact I'm going to go back to France next Wednesday, hoping that the Acte de Vente might be ready for signing soon. If only I had been told it was a delay of only 2 weeks I might be able to relax a bit; my problem is I don't even have a new date, so feel as if I'm in limbo. I said to the notaire "you seem to think I can just float about in space until you're ready". And you're right about the fees. The notaire in charge of my sale has actually been on holiday since 25th July and doesn't return until September, so I'm dealing with his assistant, who I have to say seems quite concerned, but it seems ridiculous that someone who hasn't done his job properly has swanned off on holiday for 6 weeks leaving clients in the lurch. I shall let SFN know when and if things work out - soon, I hope.
Good luck, and I'm sure you're looking forward to getting settled in Edinburgh. My daughter just flew back there yesterday and says it's so much warmer than here! (we're in Ain).
You're right, it seems pointless to have that wording. When buying here the notaire wanted to put us back 2 weeks because she was missing one piece of paper (which had been emailed to her 3 times already!) and she seemed to think this was just normal practice! And the fees and charges are astronomical too.......
It hasn't. So far, I'm waiting for a new date for signing the Acte de Vente. I'm returning to France next week to sleep on a camp bed in my apartment, I've booked into a hotel again from 20th-29th August. After that, until I have a date to sign this flaming Acte, I can't plan where to go. I'm worried and angry about the whole thing. I've now committed to buying in Edinburgh at the end of September. If things aren't worked out by then, I'll have a fine to pay. With the currency broker, he has said I can fix a new date, as I now won't be able to pay him the balance by 8th August, but I can only do that once, so I shall phone him tomorrow to ask if he can set a new deadline at end of September - of course, he says I'll lose money, but I'm losing money anyway with all this extra travelling and hotel bills. My advice to anyone selling in France would be wait until you have the money from the sale before planning anything else. I still don't understand what the point of the Compromis de Vente is, with a clause stating "the Acte de Vente must be signed no later than 24th July", if it means nothing. I'll post a message when/if everything is sorted out - if I'm still sane. Thanks for the SFN support and interest.
Hi I do think that the equivalent of a bridging loan exist in France. I think it's referred to as "prêt-relais or even "crédit-relais".
Seems to me (my opinion !) that the notaire is acting silly with you only to save time or whatever the reason is (does he know the buyer personally ?).
Do you know that when you are buying / selling in France you are entitled to have a notaire of your choice ? So much so that there can be 2 of them over the same transaction. Which is better cause they are supposed (obliged ?) to check each other "stuff" - very technical term, ain't it ? ;) That's what we did whemn we bought our house back in 2002. I suppose it's still ok to do so nowadays.
BTW, let another "knowledgeable" French friend to have a look at your legal paperwork to have another reading of the terms and conditions of the sale - you never know. What you say it mentions (or not !) doesn't seem the usual to me.
I know how worrying it can be but keep your mind focused !
Should be over and dusted soon and it'll be just a bad memory.
I'm very sympathetic, but can't think of a way to help. What a minefield it is. It is crazy that the notaire doesn't know about bridging loans. It definitely exists here. Perhaps it is termed differently. Holidays are taken so seriously here, as is the break at midi. Dull! Poor you. Hope it all works out.
The Compromis de Vente does say the contract should be signed "no later than 24th July", but it seems to be the bank who haven't paid the money in time. It also says in the Compromis that if it is not the buyer's fault that the money is not available, then I am not liable to compensation -though the French friend who read through the document with me is not an expert. I did say on Monday that the buyer should think of a bridging loan, which is what would happen in UK, but the notaire didn't seem to have heard of this. Like any other situation, if you get a notaire who is not very good, you are going to have problems. Unfortunately, I have heard from other people that they do seem to put having a holiday in August before everything. My Scottish solicitor was disgusted and like you said that a professional should not allow holidays to damage clients. But that's the situation I'm in. Still no resolution and now it's Friday, so another day of chasing up the agents and notaire's office to see if the money is through yet. All very worrying. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Haven't read all the answers but I do agree with John Bowman. The contract should mention a signature date + if buyer doesn't comply, you are entitled to compensation / day.
If tthey dont have the money, they need a bridge loan (which is quite expensive, usually). In our case, some good friends lent us the money, just because or banking delays.
Holiday leave should not have an impact on the sales : the notaire should have warned you if so. THAT is his job, by the way, to advise too !
Courtney - I'm afraid I don't really understand the money market, and I've never had a problem with using a "forward sale", or whatever it's called, before. I shall phone the broker tomorrow and explain things to him - if you are correct, maybe I will not have to lose too much. I hope not, as since selling in April, I've already lost 5,000€ with the euro crashing against sterling (which is why, a few weeks ago I put a "fix" on my exchange rate). I've explained to the notaire how important it is and there is still more than two weeks to go to send the balance, but they just don't have an "urgency" bone in their well-paid bodies. I am in the Midi, so they maybe take summer a bit too seriously here.
Thanks Kate - I think you sum it up. In spite of a wonderful solicitor in Edinburgh, who is also a superwoman (maybe the same one), I'm basically fighting French apathy (it's the holidays!!) and lack of professionalism. I've been told by a few friends I had coffee with this morning that I won't get anything done here in August, so it's very likely my seller in Edinburgh will decide to turn me down if I can't commit to a sale before September - or even later. It's the uncertainty which is upsetting at the moment; I've lost my trust in them and won't feel happy until (if?) the money from the sale is in my French bank account.
Glad to hear all your legal work got there in the end and hope you're enjoying France. I have loved being here but I wish now I'd rented rather than buying.
2 years ago we were buying a house here and a flat in Edinburgh at exactly the same time. The circumstances were identical re funding etc, but our super solicitor in Edinburgh had it done "offer to keys" in exactly 3 weeks (she's a superwoman, I think), whereas the notaire here took almost 4 months to achieve the same here in Rhone Alpes...... And that was over the spring, not the summer holidays.
Thanks for all the replies. I phoned my solicitors in Edinburgh this morning, who unlike the notaire and agent in France (I've had no apology, even) were fantastically helpful and reassuring. Fortunately they had still to get back to the seller's solicitor in Edinburgh with the final letter commiting me to the sale. They are going to stall until the beginning of next week, hoping that by then I might, at least, have a definate date for signing the Acte de Vente and, if necessary, they can explain my predicament and see if the seller will agree to an exchange date after the 15th August. However, if the bank still hasn't sent the money to my buyer by the end of this week and the notaire still can't give me a new date, I will almost certainly have nowhere to live by mid-August - even if the date was mid-September, at least that gives all interested parties something to work towards. I haven't phoned the currency broker yet but hope he is as understanding as the solicitors. When I told my solicitor that when I keep pushing for a new date and the notaire keeps saying "but in my experience everyone is on holiday at this time of year" she was disgusted and said that was so unprofessional - I agree. If you want to collect a professional salary, you do the work.
Unfortunately it is all too common. I really feel for you. Pretty much the same thing happened to us when we bought this place. Our mortgage offer got lost in the post so we couldn't complete late July. The notaires then shut down for August and the seller was so pissed off with us that he then dragged his heels and insisted on being there in person so we didn't sign the Acte until mid October.
We had to do two moves - one out of our rented property and then a second to move into the new property. All of our stuff had to be moved twice and as the kids had all started at new schools in Sept, I spent the first six weeks of term doing an 80 km school run. I made myself ill and had a car crash so my only words of wisdom are to try and minimise your financial losses and stay as calm as possible. Easier said than done I know xx
Ps when selling other properties (this is number 8!) I have found that phoning the notaires every day is quite an effective measure. They tend to get so fed up with you they get it sorted!
We're just selling outside Edinburgh at the moment, and have just done the Dispositions. The date set for entry was the 31st July, but I know there is still flexibility on that date because the house is already empty, so just contact your solicitor in Edinburgh to see if you can get a few more days leeway - it would be up to the people selling to you and it could be that they are not in a chain.
By the way, Billy, there is only one legal system allowed in Scotland (i.e. would never be possible to buy under the English system), so once the Missives (formal letters between the solicitors, agreeing conditions of sale) are accepted and concluded then both parties are legally bound.
Anyone can sign on your behalf. The notaire will deal with this, without charge. Just leave the authorisation ("procuration") with the notaire -- a simple sheet of paper, which you sign to give your authorisation for someone (notaire can/does determine at the right time who that person will be) to sign on your behalf. I have done this at least 3 times in the past!
If there is a suspensive clause in the contract saying that the purchase will complete only if the buyer can obtain money from his/her bank, then the date of final completion can be and often is changed/manipulated. Let us just hope that the bank does provide the funds (if there is such a suspensive clause), otherwise the buyer can (and can/do often use this as a pretext to) walk away from the deal. I am hoping that all other matters can be resolved with some (but not undue) pain -- they appear to be reasonably resolvable, I think. So I am keeping my fingers crossed for you, Gillian. If there is no susensive clause, then you will be entitled to compensation, substantial (5% - 20%) compensation (as stipulated in the contract). Good luck. There are still a few days left for things to fall into place to your planning, I feel and hope.
Exactly the same is happening to us, completion was due 1st July, but due to Purchasers delay sorting his finance now (hopefully) tomorrow (25th). Apparently there is no legal obligation, but he has agreed to cover our out-of-pocket expenses. Push for this, and get a bankers cheque from him prior to completion.