Auto-Entrepreneurs

James Higginson's picture

For information and advice on the French Auto-Entrepreneur scheme for small business owners.

Steve YATES's picture

When I read the rules for the CESU system thinking I would use it to pay someone to build a veranda for me, I came to the conclusion that it was far too complicated and potentially dangerous if you would be paying the same person on a regular basis. For example, they could ask for an employment contract and holiday pay.  It really does just seem suitable for people doing a few hours for a few different "employers".  

Robert Scotton's picture

From what I gather Veronique cheque emploi is similar to PAYE in the UK. There are rules to be observed, presumably, limits to be applied. Then the social charges to pay on top of course, which is almost double. Then, if you are a taxpayer you can claim some of this back I understand. All sounds like a complete headache to me. Of course I haven't grown up with the system. Plus, they, the ordinary householder has to have an employers insurance as well.

When I ran a PAYE system for the people working for me in the UK I wouldn't call that simple. Much easier just to paye the individual and let them worry about their own tax liabilities as we do in the UK. Unless you are an Employer.

Which system would I prefer.......by far, the UK model.

Véronique Langlands's picture

??? Chèque emploi service is EASY!! What do you mean responsibilities that go with it? Apart from paying social charges as any employer should, there aren't any. It really is simple. There is no 'chèque emploi status' it is just a way of LEGALLY employing somebody to do odd-jobs or one-off bits of work. If you think employing a person legally gives you headaches, try doing it on the black.

Sharon Went's picture

Thanks for the advice, in some ways it has become a little clearer and I think I should be aiming for CDD status but I know that the school is not keen on this (I don't want to jeopardise getting this job).  There is a possibility that I could have a couple of private students as well....that sounds like I'd have to do cheque emploi as well...I agree Robert, it is all rather a mess!!

Robert Scotton's picture

I was going to suggest "cheque emploi" but didn't know exactly the conditions required. What a dreadfully complicated system the french have created for themselves. If I were a private individual there is no way I would want to offer my gardener a cheque emploi status simply because of the responsibilities that go with it. My french neighbour does it for her gardener and I regularly copy all the documents she has to produce. Well, every 3 months anyway?

These are the sort of changes that the government need to look at "post haste" in my opinion. There must be thousands and thousands of people willing to work but can't for one reason or another???

Véronique Langlands's picture

Vacataire status applies only to the public sector (Education Nationale) so you need a CDD stipulating part-time work from the company who have set up the school.

Lots of private companies talk about emplying people with vacataire status but it has no legal basis at all where they are concerned.

Another possibility might be cheque emploi-service but again I'm not sure a commercial entity can pay people that way, just private individuals.

Katie Osborne's picture

sharon you could be asked to be paid as a "vacataire" which is a temporary contract and most language schools offer this to non AE people.  As you also need to be able to invoice at least 2 companies to be an AE - otherwise you are considered as an employee.

Sharon Went's picture

Hi there, I wonder if anyone can advise; I'm due to start running English language classes two days a week and will have to register as an AE in order to invoice the company that have set up the school.  I don't really want to go down this road and someone mentioned to my OH that I can invoice another way, using a 'cheque de something'...sorry to be vague but this wasn't a direct conversation!  Is there any other way apart from AE or ME?

Louise Doddrell's picture

I am in the Centre, the Loiret (45) not far from Orléans and Fontainebleau.

Rachael Fillatre's picture

Hi Louise, I'm in the Gers and you?

Louise Doddrell's picture

Hello Rachael. I am interested to learn that you are a VA too.  Whereabouts are you in France?

Rachael Fillatre's picture

Hello Micala I'm a VA and would be interested in joining the Facebook page as well. Just clicked on the link to have a look.

Catharine Higginson's picture

Also feel free to talk to Sheila Walshe Blackmore who is an admin on this site (and absolutely lovely to boot) - she does the same too and is a mine of sensible info. Hope this helps! x

Louise Doddrell's picture

Yes, fine.  

Katherine Alexander's picture

Thank you Louise for your very kind offer, yes please, l would very much like to take you up on your offer of help and advise, l have sent a friend request , l hope this is ok?

Katherine Alexander's picture

Hi Micala...Thanks for the invite but l am already a member!...l posted a question regards siret numbers and B&B's gites which had an overwhelming response...but for Louise and Julia...l can recommend the group, great ladies, great advise and good fun too!

Louise Doddrell's picture

Katherine, I am also working as a VA and would be happy to give you any information or help.  I set up as an auto-entrepreneur.

Micala - I would be interested in joining the Facebook page too.

Julia Grange's picture

Thank you for the facebook link Micala, I didn't know of the group. I work as an agent commercial/estate agent as I couldn't get work locally as a bilingual PA/Secretary but I'll ask to join the Ladies in Business and see what transpires!

Micala Wilkins's picture

Katherine Alexander... If you are registered to work in France with a siret number you might like to consider joining Ladies in Business in France Facebook Group  - Strictly Ladies only who have their own business in France.  There is a post there where a fellow member is looking to connect with virtual PAs for assignments. If you would like to join, I can signpost you to the thread  https://www.facebook.com/groups/255495904600055/  Micala Wilkins 

Katherine Alexander's picture

l have recently moved here (10 days ago) and am looking to work from home as a Virtual PA.  l  have an admin, sales, marketing and retail management background and would welcome comments on the correct siret number, type of work there is out there, reasonable chargeable rates and all other types of advice! to get going.. In the UK, l have only worked under the normal PAYE system..and my French is very limited , so international / English speaking clients only at first.  Many thanks in advance.

elaine brett's picture

Thank you Alex I will read your blog now.
Alex Crowe's picture

Hi Elaine - If you've been living here a while, you'll know it's unnecessarily complicated and no one actually knows for sure. But my current feeling is, if you do a declaration simple (or write a letter saying you're going to do it) by Dec 31, you're good to go the following year. At least, this is what my mayor thinks and what we did, eventually. (I've written a whole blog about our glampsite in France experience, which you can read here at some point.)

The best thing would be to go ahead and do it. Set-up costs should pay back in the first two years - tent, floor, furnishings. And you may need to replace the cover every couple of years, or buy a more long-lasting polycotton and take the tent(s) down over the winter and store in a mouse-proof place. The blog covers most things, but the rules change every second Thursday and I don't have the time to keep up to date with that - we've got a glampsite to run...

elaine brett's picture

I don't intend it to be major just one tent using the facilities of the house and I am an artist so that will be my primary activity. But you never know how things could develop so will check first with mairie for clarity.
Andrew Hearne's picture

you may need planning permission if you're going to be taking money/if it's a business. Best check at la mairie ;-)

elaine brett's picture

Would this apply if you wanted to pitch a couple of bell tents for seasonal 'clamping' declare at Mairie/tourist office?
Elaine Rogers's picture

Yes, something about simply declaring your B&B or Gite to either chamber of commerce or tourist office, I cannot remember exactly, but is definitely something other than AE for a small tourism business like accommodation. Less taxes, as far as I can remember. I would also love to know the proper stance on this...
Christine Kavanagh's picture

right on your form - when you become an AE - does it tell you how much they are going to take off you ie the percentage - for me B & B we are expecting it to be 14% & the percentage for income tax  is that right

Andrew Hearne's picture

all out of sync! Yes, Tracy, 48% of profits, yes very long story ;-)

Andrew Hearne's picture

re expenses - get the end customer to pay invoices direct for materials etc ;-)

Tracy Thurling's picture

Doh, now my comment is out of sync you two!