How to smack a child "properly"

All right so it's not exactly what a report on TF1's prime time news on Tuesday evening was saying, but in a way, it surely wasn't far from it.

It's all a matter of interpretation.

"Bon usage de la fessée" ran the title of a three-and-a-half minute clip introduced by anchor Laurence Ferrari and although it has been tempered somewhat on the site to read "Pour bien punir ses enfants, tout est question de mesure" the underlying message remains the same doesn't it?

TF1's report was part of an ongoing series looking at the education - in the broad sense of the word - of children and featured a couple with three young boys.

The mother, Marie-Laure Vital, admitted, just as 80 per cent of French parents apparently do, that she occasionally smacks her children.

Vital sometimes feels "unable to cope" and because she reportedly often feels that the punishment - whatever form it might take - isn't doing its job properly or is inappropriate, she has joined a workshop which specifically teaches parenting skills.

"L'atelier des parents" is a one of a kind in France and on the agenda during TF1's filming was the subject of punishment, with one of the workshop's psychologists, Caroline Iruela, detailing what sort of discipline was unacceptable and the eight parents present exchanging their experiences.

So far so good.

But then up pops a doctor - a paediatrician no less - with over 30 years experience.

And while he maintains, just as you would expect from a professional that, "If smacking is carried out to hurt or publicly humiliate a child, it's not effective" take a look at his gesture as he begins this contribution.

Doesn't it seem to imply that an "appropriate" slap on the hands is perfectly all right as it doesn't really constitute smacking?

Last year after a woman was given a six-month suspended sentence for smacking her child, the lines of a 'phone-in programme on national radio were buzzing with indignation.

Listeners were appalled by the decision and critical of the invited guest, paediatrician and parliamentarian Edwige Antier. who has tried to introduce a law to ban smacking.

"A mother should be a 'protector' and what's needed in France is a law, as exists in 18 other European countries, abolishing the right parents have to hit a child," said Antier during the show.

It wasn't a point of view with which many listeners agreed and they're not alone.

A 2010 poll among health professionals showed that 88 per cent of them were also against the introduction of such a law.

While domestic corporal punishment, of which smacking is one form, is against the law in many European countries, it seems to be acceptable in France.

And while the prevailing thinking runs along the lines of "A smack from time to time has never hurt anyone," (read some of the comments to TF1's report), that 2008 Council of Europe "Raise your hand against smacking" campaign calling on all member states to pass laws prohibiting all forms of corporal punishment of children, including smacking, looks set to have little impact on lawmakers here.

Smacking's all right isn't it? As long as it's done "properly".

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Comment by Brian Milne on May 22, 2012 at 16:40: Tia, I fear you are broadly speaking spot on. How, however, does anybody and especially the law make the distinction, therein the dilemma.

Jane. With regard to the Levellers, Diggers and various others must be spinning. I caught the bronchitis that is just clearing because I was in a two person room and they brought in somebody who had just had a heart attack who also had a severe cold. All over the hospital were signs saying that people with coughs should wear masks, but clearly that did not include somebody too ill to put one on. By the time I left two weeks ago I had symptoms of a cold but it went bad, so that when I went back to to see the othopaedic surgeon I was asked to wear a mask! When I went in to see him I had to take it off - so did he get a cold and subsequent appointees? The logic applied in our world defies me at times, many things we are asked not to do or forbidden provoke initiative to do those things undetected. Therein also the smacking problem. I have two young children despite my great age and understand the temptation to slap or kick up rear end very often. However, I also know I am bigger than them and how can I justify what is always disproportionate force?

Comment by Jane Williamson on May 22, 2012 at 15:12: @ Tia, so true, there are so many people in all different walks of life who think, "that doesn't apply to me".

One of the hardest things to do is to take a long hard look at oneself, but that takes courage and the self-discipline to act on what you find.

We are all now being punished for those who take the easy way out and no-one is allowed to think for oneself these days. One thing that particularly annoyed me in UK was that I was not allowed to buy more than 32 aspirins or paracetamol, in case I might take an overdose and kill myself. If my OH made a separate purchase, we could have 64!

Figures have just been published on the dramatic fall in hospital deaths due to the use of antiseptic gels at the entrance to wards and single rooms. Well, it didn't take a genius to work that one out, but how long did it take to implement?

There is no longer any common sense being applied to the way we live our lives and as a good Lancastrian lass, I find that deplorable.

The Levellers must be turning in their graves!!

Comment by Tia Azulay on May 22, 2012 at 14:10: Brian, I think one of the problems wtih the zero tolerance approach is that the "rational, occasional and quite mild corporal punishers " are usually also good citizens who are easily targeted by the law, whereas abusers often regard themselves as outside the law and are harder to track down, proceed against and punish, and when they do end up in court are unlikely to express remorse or to change their basic approach to humankind anyway, so the abusers keep on doing what they do and good people who are simply doing the best they can are often disproportionately or, sometimes, incorrectly punished. I think that when true abuse (with an intent to abuse) is proven, judgement should be rapid and punishment severe (yes, I do subscribe to the "life should mean life" approach to punishment), but I think there should be more leeway for parents to figure things out for themselves, or with the help of whatever educational aid the state can provide, but without fear of being targeted.

Comment by Brian Milne on May 22, 2012 at 13:19: Sure Jane,

my OH and I are among the social scientists you mention. Our role is to research in order to inform and advise, which no longer seems to be the case. Lawmakers do as they think, then fail to enforce. The trouble with the 'smacking' business is that if the rational, occasional and quite mild corporal punishers are tolerated then those who exploit the tolerance by the fear of children to denounce them and say exactly how they are treated wins over. So no exception rules were made. Now teachers here in France are increasingly going back to smacking - justification has sometimes been that it is what is done at home. There is a spiral of potential abuse within that and no it is not nanny statism it is an attempt to give children the example by which to grow up not believing physical force is the ultimate solution to all evils. There is lots of room for common sense and good moral guidance, a pity people do not give themselves the time and patience to try it.

Comment by Maria Warren on May 22, 2012 at 12:23: I was smacked as a child and also smacked my 3 boys...unfortunately smacking was like handing down genes....but for all that I really dont think it did me any harm and as for my 3 boys we are all close and they respect both of us.They think they had an excellent childhood and although they dont smack their children they think they deserved a smack. I do think there is a world of difference between smacking and beating/torturing children who are helpless against adults. I also got the cane at school (from nuns who seemed to delight in giving the cane)but probably deserved it. I grew up to be a balanced hard-working adult and now have 6 grand-children. I personally think we live in a nanny state and no matter how many laws there are against smacking children there will always be sad cases like Baby P.

Comment by Jane Williamson on May 22, 2012 at 12:08: Unfortunately Brian, there is not enough adult and responsible thinking when people decide to have children, or have them without thinking!

Are we to negotiate with all those adults who beat their children, or make them face the consequences of their behaviour?

We are now living in a world where almost all of our decisions have been taken our of our hands by the politicians, educationalists, sociologists and psychologists. There seems to be little room left for common sense and moral guidance. We are all being brought down to the lowest common denominator, in order that we may be "governed" more efficiently!

Comment by Tia Azulay on May 22, 2012 at 10:57: Hi Brian, I would suggest that your approach might be viewed as an ideal to which one might aspire in many situations, but plenty of examples exist, some of which have been mentioned in this thread, where there simply isn't time for "negotiation and/or argument". It's also not realistic for children to grow up thinking that whenever they have an issue with something, the entire world will stop revolving until they and the relevant "adult power source" have finished a satisfactory "negotiation".

The fact that many people do not exercise power well is not a reason to try to remove all power from those who attempt to do so. Although I know that laws are necessary to protect society from the worst excesses, In general, I favour education and self-development rather than legislation for the advancement of the species.

The judicious, non-vindictive use of physical discipline does require great heart and great wisdom, which, admittedly, many of us do not have, but we also should aspire to these. If all situations in which such judgement might be exercised were completely removed by law, the opportunities for such growth would also be removed, and adults, as well as children, infantilised.

Comment by Brian Milne on May 22, 2012 at 7:43: Yes Tia, but it does not require hitting them. Negotiation and even argument should be enough. Psychologists have been critical of smacking for the best part of a century, that was taken into account in outlawing physical punishment internationally - whilst some people genuinely do give 'little' smacks far too many do not and then claim what they do is only little as well.

Comment by Tia Azulay on May 21, 2012 at 21:11: Conceiving and bearing children involves the use of "adult power over children". It comes with the territory. Reneging on your responsibility to exercise appropriate power over your children until they are capable of making adult decisions for themselves is morally reprehensible, IMHO.

Comment by Brian Milne on May 21, 2012 at 20:59: I am a seasoned professional in the children's rights sector. Corporal punishment is, whatever people may think, the use of adult power over children. It is morally reprehensible. It has been outlawed by most European states, yet tolerated and even allowed in schools. A smack is easy to justify, but when we adults get something wrong how would we react to being smacked by our child? If people learned to talk to children and explain values including hwat is wrong it could be ended.

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