Who is this addressed to if me . No thanks.
If you are in the Charente or thereabouts I can recommend a better architect for the plans
I am having a complete renovation on part of my property on a budget of around 200,000 euros plus extras for exterior works. My french is fair especially around building terms. I have opted for commissioning a professional Architect who will also act as project manager. His fees are quite high although the level of detail is amazing, I am more than satisfied with the design scheme and the works in progress. I do not believe in skimping especially in France as you will need so much paperwork and permissions especially with new build and renovation controls. I don't wan't to be anti British, being British myself. (at least half-my mother was French) But Brits tend to be really MEAN when it comes to paying out to our French neighbours and expect to get everything done on the CHEAP and then complain about it!
I am in the middle of a project and have elected to go solo - no architect but a builder who feel we can trust. It's been a long journey for us. We started with Architect number 1 and the project came in at €700,000 (originally he budgeted €200,000) so we sacked him. Went to architect number 2 who I just could get behind the logic of pricing - I'm disabled (which adds cost) and I wanted a lift in the house - architect no 2 got a price of €28,000, I checked with the supplier and the installed cost with all guarantees etc was €15,000 so I was being asked to pay a fee and then having everything marked up!
So we've gone with a builder - yes we've had some shocks with extra's but we expected this, however we're paying less and have expanded the job so are getting more. The builders know the regulations, they know the authorities and we trust them - so I guess it's down to how comfortable you feel managing yourself. I have had to draw plans, specify kit for the house etc - I wouldn't use an architect here although I would in the UK
the advantage of having a architect and maitre d’oeuvre is that they responsible for the successful completion of the project. If there are delays or faults you have a remedy against the maitre d'oeuvre , and against his insurance.
if building such a floor area greater than 170m2, the use of an architect is compulsory.
usual rates are circa 8.5 % (which would pay an insurance company if it were a disaster recovery and thus is lower limit ) and 10 % which is the rate in general
if you decide to assume yourself the management of the work you should contract a Dommages Ouvrage insurance contract and carefully ask, READ, and store the decennale insurance of the building companies.
D. Perot / anteac
public loss assessor / expert d'assuré
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Regarding doing it yourself - over a total surface area (ie house + rebuild) you are obliged to get an architect to do the plans. Back in the day that my ex did plans for people he got caught out, the change of use/renovation to a huge garage on it's own fell below the magic figure but as it was attached to the main house, the total area was the figure and the permis was refused until he got the all famous architect stamp on them
No problems, if you need anymore, just ask. Bear in mind the economy of scale that applies on our larger projects.
My feelings exactly - thanks for the figures.
Yes, French fine. Planning rules and regs - getting good advice from a local councillor who is responsible for planning. Experience in dealing with builders yes, building work myself - no.
Yes, quite confident. There is a local free service giving advice every Friday here, so will try that before making a decision - just want to get on with things.
Hi,
I never accept architects being paid on a % basis. I don't see how it relates. Cost should be linked to fundamental client requested change.
12.5% on €300k is €37.500 what does this work out as a day rate? ie how much real time will she spend on it. When we benchmark, we use about 6-7% for an architect, but we do work on much larger projects. Our fees for Project Management usually work out at about 4%.
Hope that helps
As David has inferred, there are a lot of variables.
Do you speak good French?...Do you know the planning rules and regs here?...Do you live here year round?....Have you any building experience? Are you confident you could handle a group of builders and the planning permission process etc etc?
We paid slightly less than €4,000 for all the drawings, and for a successful passage through the planning application process - and for some ad hoc advice as the work progressed. Personally, I thought it money well spent.
Have you thought about employing a Maitre D'oeuvre instead? Might be cheaper if you can handle the planning side yourself.
http://www.renovationettravaux.fr/tarif-architecte-honoraires-devis
It's one of those piece of string questions see above for some idea of costs. You could always ask more architects for a devis.
I note that one of you mentioned that an architect needed pi insurance.......but inferred that if an architect only prepared the drawings and made the planning application but went no further with any site work management that he did not legally need to have any professional indemnity insurance in France. Is this correct?
I appreciate this string because we are preparing for works to our home in Aveyron. We are planning to add three bathrooms and renovate three bathrooms–interior work only, but will require some planning to coordinate the masonry, electrical, plumbing and heating. If anyone on this board could recommend an architect or maitre d’oeuvre around Rodez or in Aveyron generally, I would much appreciate it.