Autoentrepreneur separate business account

Okay, so who do we believe - the lawyers or the government ... hmm dilemma. I'm sitting here chuckling actually as it's getting sillier by the minute. I think you're in a much worse situation than I am, Sarah, because my main client tends to pay between the 6th and 8th of the month so at least I would know roughly when any transfer should be made. You have all my sympathies on that one - it must be horrendous trying to keep tabs on your balance.

it's all flippin' stupid - if you want to avoid charges anybody would just get in paid in cash!

Yep, I have that problem too. 90% of my income comes from the UK. It is paid into my uk bank account and I usually use Transferwise to transfer it across. So I will be transferring from that bank to my business bank here to then immediately transfer it across to my personal French account which will delay things.

I can see this AE thing being abolished soon. Maybe they did not think it through properly. Surely if they suspect an AE of avoiding Cotisations etc then they only have to check their personal bank account and query the deposits? Having more than one account may mean that it can be more easily hidden; transfer some to the business account, some to the personal account and hey presto! Either some is bypassed or it doubles the audit for the government. Maybe that is the whole point, create more jobs! :-)

Just to say I've just opened an new account with my existing bank - Banque Chaix with a cheque book only.

There will be no charges for this as I already have my account with them unless I ask for a bank transfer to be done, that I can't do myself online.

The only pain in this is that I have English clients that pay into my UK bank account - what to do there? (or not to do?)

I am also confused. On this site http://www.assistant-juridique.fr/compte_bancaire_autoentrepreneur.jsp it states it is NOT obligatory and the page was updated on 5th Jan 2015

"La loi n'impose pas à l'auto-entrepreneur d'ouvrir un compte dédié à son activité. Il peut donc utiliser son compte bancaire personnel."

But on this site: http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/F2326... it states it is!

"Quelle que soit l'activité exercée, l'auto-entrepreneur est soumis à l'obligation de détenir un compte professionnel, dédié à l'ensemble des transactions financières liées à son activité professionnelle, dans un établissement de crédit ou un bureau de chèques postaux."

I am like you Valerie. I have minimal money coming in and the only source is from work undertaken and this is money I use to live on for bills, groceries and school payments etc. I already have had a run in with my bank due to money not coming in in time for payments due to go out and opening a second account will only create further delays. My money does not come in on set dates, only when invoices are paid so I cannot set up an automatic transfer. I provide a service so I have no business spending only income and like you I am a single parent who is already struggling to keep up with the gardening requirements, housekeeping, parenting while working just to be able to survive and pay more taxes than I did in the UK.

To be honest with the amount of paperwork involved and costs incurred in general when I am earning so little I have to wonder if its worth staying legally registered?? I can now begin to understand why so many do work cash in hand or off the books. It may be the only way to survive. I thought this AE regime was set up to help the French economy by making it easier for people to earn and income independently and therefore pay taxes on that income??

The UK system is so much better and easier. We are treated the same whether on PAYE or Sole Trader (i.e. we have the minimum income level before being subjected to tax so as to allow us to at least earn the minimum wage and not less like it is for me here).

Actually it just occurred to me - under the AE scheme business expenditure is redundant anyway, you cannot claim anything back so only your income is of importance, so why the heck do you need a separate bank account really??

Thank you Elaine.

The vigilance element does worry me. I'm the sole carer, cook, grass cutter, chainsaw wielder and whatever else you can think of to a 10 year old. Having another essential added to my "whatever you do, don't forget this" list is something I can seriously do without when it seems to serve little purpose.

p.s. Donna, I did only used to use online banking (in a different country) but had one of the little gizmos that gave a security login number which frequently glitched so I'd end up down the branch anyway, having to queue for however long. Now I groan at the very thought of starting that marlarky again.

I am with Valerie on this - this will not stop people abusing the system, or avoiding cotisations and income tax. And 7 euros a month adds up 84 euro a year - that would be my third bank account for paying fees, as I also still have my Irish bank account.

Yes, online banking does make everything easier, but as Valerie explains, you need to be vigilant if you have DD coming out of your personal account and you need this topped up.

Another twist in the jagged dagger of support for the self employed in France.

Having said that, every country gives with one hand and takes from the other,not just France.

Donna, I only do online banking. I only have two or three payments in a year, since my work is usually and advance plus final payment and then two a year at top. The little dribs and drabs go into an account not in France which I actually declare. I only need one account whatever, Val is most likely to be the same.

As it is, I have seen nothing about on the URSSAF bulletins or FEDAE newsletters, so let's hope it is only for those you mention - not withstanding the fact I feel sorry for them having talked with my kinesi this morning during my session who is not actually making ends meet despite working from 0830 to 1800 five days a week, plus Saturday morning and only half an hour lunch break any day. She is in that position. What a misery all round.

I’m an AE, service provider mostly working from home and with a low income. I did not need to open a business account at my bank, just a second personal account at my bank. It doesn’t cost anything. As for transferring money to and from my “business” account to my “personal account”, I do it online. Doesn’t anyone do online banking here? It costs nothing and takes a minute. No big deal.

Exactly Brian. It's running two accounts instead of the initial one which performed all functions, including keeping an accurate record of payments so I really do not see the point. How can it help with abusing the system if it's all recorded there in black and white anyway? I simply don't get it.

I'm hoping that Shelley is right, that this may only apply to traders who would have more transactions in/out rather than freelancers/service providers.

Madness. So now I can pay separate bank charges for money that is already subject to the slash and burn charging of people who work independently. Like you Val, I am well under minimum wage so that the extra €150 does not exactly go down well in any sense. It would also make my personal account redundant, so what we do is open a business account, close the personal account and dohhhhh!!

Ooooh, that would be good Shelley if it's aimed specifically at traders as opposed to service providers. I am a bit of a worry wort when it comes to making sure I'm above board, I do admit - you're talking to the woman who once declared a jar of marmalade at Miami airport because it had whisky in it. Big man, big gun, laughed his a's off.

I'll have a word with them about online banking. We have a small local branch so I'm used to just toddling down there as and when but if it's going to become a regular thing, you're completely right, online is the way to go. I think I'm feeling resentful that because there's such a small amount going in, some of it now has to be 'wasted' on something that to me seems unnecessary, plus the additional faffing around. Ho hum. C'est la vie.

Hi! This was discussed on another site recently and there were various links to the rules etc. I'm pretty sure that the new requirement is only for AEs with commercial buying / selling activities so I'm not doing anything at tbe moment. My husband (french) says that we expats worry too much about these things. His french take on suchlike is "wait until they ask you directly or it becomes a problem " - there is no glory in being excessively diligant here in France!

We have exactly the same situation. We basically move money from accout A to B to live on and leave some back to pay cotisations from the 'business' account. And it really isn't that much of a hassle. We've done it since we started the AE, just so we would have a separate record of all income. We do everything on line and only go to the bank to take cheques for paying in. I think we only pay about €4-7 a month and that covers both accounts. Hang in there.

Just seems bizarre Rachael. They won't crack down on abuse this way. Most likely anyone who IS abusing the system is paid cash in hand and doesn't declare it. If something's paid into a bank, it's automatically on record. I really, simply don't get it.

Thanks Robin. In my particular circumstances though it just seems extreme hassle. I do not have to make any purchases related to business so in simple terms I work, the client pays into the account, I use that to pay bills and buy food.

The new scenario would mean that I work, client pays into account A and I have to keep transferring money to account B for the direct debits etc. I can't transfer those onto account A as that would then become the 'personal' account. The only money going into account B would come from account A so it's a win-win for the bank if there are transfer charges. I'll have to stump up for two accounts, one of which is completely unnecessary. If I forget to transfer money on time or there's a problem I'll be liable for any late payment charges so to avoid that I'll have to every month toddle down the bank to transfer everything from A to B, leaving A permanently empty so that I can use cards/write cheques from B. Sheesh.

Sorry, government, I think it's bloody ridiculous.

No knowledge sorry Valerie, just commiserating with you. I'm a bit in the same situation as you. What a pain in the butt that is going to be!! J'en ai marre! :-(

I've just looked at the forum on this site which is very useful...

http://www.startbusinessinfrance.com

Yes, you it is required to have a separate account but it does not have to be a business account. It can be a separate personal account. This is what my husband does. We have a separate personal account that all payments for the business are made into and we use it for any business purchases. Then we simply transfer money on line from the business account into our personal account when needed. The fees are not exorbitant...we use Crédit Agricole.

Good luck.