I don't mean this in an offensive way...that is what the Scots want...they only stayed because they wanted to stay in the EU....Let people do what they want to do and stop trying to shoe-horn them into doing something that they don't want...(eg, lose their national identity to be part of an ever closer union within a federal Europe...which is what would have happened. I now think, that far from protecting the peace, what will/could easily happen as a result of situations such as Greece, is that there could be real unrest in Europe in the not too distant future...)
I don't see how you reach the conclusion that it is 'arrogant'....
Gosh !..not letting Europe go.....just a big change in the 'relationship'......from a claustrophobic 'like it or lump it' situation........to one where we have more 'space, room to breathe, see other people, do our own thing' and 'won't be dictated to.'...or drawn into and be made to pay for, 'mistakes made by others'
The First Minister is actually off to Brussels at their invitation (received Friday).
However their is little likelihood of another indy referendum soon ... and having first hand experience at the poor quality of drafting new bills, ammendments etc from Holyrood, it will take them more than two years to sort out the legislation. They are still working on trying to sort out the income tax legislation where resident Scots pay their IT direct to Holyrood
Despite that repudiation, and financial contributions from the UK, policing the Border at Calais etc is costing France/local councils massive sums.
The 3 Accord group hotels at Coquelles are permanently half full with CRS, a couple of hundred of them, and have been for a couple of years now. Other hotels are similarily booked. Police are being shipped in for one/two week stints from as far away as Bordeaux and the Rhone Alps. That is not cheap, especially when you multiply it across the other ports. The police are also getting special pay for this. And this comes at a time when they are already stretched by the threat of terrorism (and football hooligans!)
Sorry to disagree but many of the leave voters I know (and I'm not talking a handful) have changed their minds because of the state of Scotland's finances. If you speak to those in the fishing, farming, oil and whisky industries none are happy about the idea of another referendum.
The consensus of Scotland's political hacks is also that a referendum just now would fail and this is just typical Nicola sabre rattling
And yet another Guardian piece - this one ties in with why Boris has been so untypically reticent since Friday
From the guardians comments section:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
Oh John ?? ".... an insignificant majority ..." We live in a democracy John, where the majority voice can never be insignificant !!!
Hilary Jane I never felt that my identity was threatened by being in the EU. Now I feel that it has diminished because of the inward looking attitude of the Brexiteers. I cannot identify with these people.
Calling on all charentais based brexiters or bremainers to have interviews with me for CultureGap the broacast initiated by Vincent and Elizabeth.
vincent is in Eire and has given me carte blanche.
My email is baud24@hotmail.com
Have your say on one of the few english radio in Dordogne . Thanks for contacting me pronto. We may have an influence on the next negotiations…
I feel I need to make the following comment for those Brits about to become non-EU who think, OK I'll just have to get a work visa. Ha!
Getting a work visa ( you have to have a new work contract already signed and the legal papers for the government (who must apprive it) submitted plus the employer pays a special tax for the right to employ a non-EU, is becoming nigh on impossible with the state of French unemployment. Jobs must go to French first then EU citizens. Why would an employer want so much hassle and expense to employ a non-EU? That's my experience over 6 years of trying. A work visa does NOT give you the right to do any kind of employment you want. I am limited to being salaried so I can't start my own business. Smaller businesses won't hire for the above reasons plus the fact they don't want to pay social charges so I'd need to be self-employed, which I'm forbidden to. So... don't assume you can just get a work visa to work. Already being self-employed in France might help.
Hilary Jane! now that's hardly in the spirit of European of peace and reconciliation is it, I presume you realise the indigenous French are possibly thinking same about us now, especially as French employers don't seem to believe in Freedom of movement and labour!
George, I'm a politically minded observer, have no love for any party one way or another. I prefer to base my opinions on what I hear said, not political colour of who said it. I've listened/watched for several weeks, to the various arguments, debates, interviews on TV. I haven't read any UK papers, I can't buy them here in any shops near to me. The onl paper I see is The Connexion.
Based on above, I don't recall that Cameron ever said "immediately" to triggering Article 50. Yes it would have to be triggered at some point in time to commence the negotiations for withdraŵal from EC. This weekend has proved, confirming what I had thought about Osborne (and May's) absence. Manŷ phone calls had to be made, discussions held, to be able to inform the public, as he has this morning, of who has been spoken to and what will have to happen in UK now regarding Cameron's. replacement. I bet all that 'weekend work' was done at Chequers or somewhere deep inside a Government building, with Cameron, Senior civil servants and advisors present. It is obvious that the markets had to be stabilised, it did not surprise me at all that Mark Carney was first to speak to the press after Cameron on Friday.
Yes the government misjudged the reaction left festering in the public, by adding taxes affecting the less well off more than others, rather than tackling the issue of taxing better paid a little more - by not addressing tax evasion, or immigration. These are also the failures of HM Customs & Rvenue, who already have UK laws and mandates to do so, but didn't!
In order to have a fair and just society, stable economy successive Governments have failed over several decades to properly address these. Jeremy Corbŷn in his speech on 14 June said that is what he hoped to achieve. I agreed with him and thought there was hope at last for a more equal and fair society.
However the fear tactics of the Leave Campaign, led bŷ Farage and the press, joined bŷ Boris and Gove really worked, especially on immigration numbers, affecting all parts of society, especially the immigrants already working and paying their taxes in the UK now.
Nobody in Europe could have foreseen the effects of or the immigration crisis brought on bŷ ISIS and the others thT noŵ follow. Merkels mistake was saying she would allocate numbers of them to Member States. Other member states failed to process those immigrants properly if at all. The EC failed in not having emergency summits immediately - no Merkel & Hollande were the 2 the press and other States followed. The media and press and don't even report accurately, the things we hear and see said on TV for ourselves. No they played the Spin Game - twisting words, manipulating and misrepresenting facts.
This weekend Johnson is backtraçking, saying Project Fear is Over! He helped fuel it, saying all the Experts views, from Financial Industrŷ, BoE, CBI, Union Leaders et al.
So the situation became an open book for the Farage/Boris/media fear campaign, ignoring the experts views on a Leave win. Good looks and loud mouths won!
God help us if Johnson becomes next PM, who knows who is suitable to be the next Chancellor.
Before last Thursday, there was a steadily growing and stable economy, with employment rising. One step forward now it's 10 steps back!
Much though I admire Corbyn's motives, I'm not convinced yet that the public are confident in his ability to be an effective PM if labour win the next GE, which will probably not be long in coming.
So yes I agree with almost all you have written, especially the last paragraph. However the choice does still lie with Parliament as to whether or not to accept the Result or to Keep Calm and carry on as though last Thursdaŷ never happened! Problem is though we now have 2 Leadership Problems to cope with. I wish Cameron had just put up and shut up last Friday! That would have scuppered Boris!
The anger will mount against the UK....
The french said you can roll back the borders to Dover and quit quickly. The Germans are not so prompt but it boils over to almost the same. Britain has always said yes but we opt out of the social charter thr euro and they want special arrangements for the City. So this brexit is not a surprise. A lot of animosity has been generated before Brexit. The brits need to attract more sympathy if they want a reasonable exit.How to achieve this? Already Bo jo is backtracking as he sees the carnage
The anger will mount against the UK....
The french said you can roll back the borders to Dover and quit quickly. The Germans are not so prompt but it boils over to almost the same. Britain has always said yes but we opt out of the social charter thr euro and they want special arrangements for the City. So this brexit is not a surprise. A lot of animosity has been generated before Brexit. The brits need to attract more sympathy if they want a reasonable exit.How to achieve this? Already Bo jo is backtracking as he sees the carnage
This is a shambles. So seek refuge in Donne who sums up how I have felt since about 4.30 on Friday morning.
No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
Shirley. If you read the first couple of lines, right at the start, you will see that this is a Guardian comment piece. I did not write it. I think you have misinterpreted it.
However I should say that 40 or so years working with politicians both in the UK and EU perhaps gives me some insight into what is happening.
Cameron not resigning on Friday would not have scuppered Boris - Cameron announced some time ago he was going and Boris was the PM in waiting (he hoped).
Corbyn - with Tom Watson now the latest calling on him to go - will not win a general election. He does not like the limelight and has no leadership qualities. He is leader only by accident.
And the Tories have a very good chancellor in waiting - Sajid Javid. He has a great head for finance and business and longer term is tipped as the country's first Asian PM. Cameron slipped up giving him the culture job - Sajid then spent a fortune on Amazon buying up numerous times on culture!! But moving him to business was a smarter move
If Connexion is your only news link with the UK then I suggest its not an ideal title to base anything accurate on. Read the online versions of the various national and regional UK papers, and also BBC.
That way you'll get a more balanced view.
Very appropriate Vero. No man is an island, are the words that have been going through my head since Thursday! I have read the poem many many years ago, probably in literature classes, didn't know or remember Donne's name though.sounds like you stayed up as long as I did before exhaustion took over Friday morning. I got about 2 hours sleep!
yes I can imagine how very worried you are, as I am. I'm v conscious of how much I am costing the state here without contributing to it via taxes, except in shops and keeping a nasty but working landlady richer, while she enforces some of my ill health.
I've always been a giver, I'm not used to being a taker, until I left,OH after 45.5 years of giving to him and family, so I took control of my life back again :-) or so I thought :-( because I couldn't have foreseen what was about to happen only few weeks later.
I really hope they don't trigger Article 50, it's within Parliament's power to refuse to do so! Especially with the £ now at a 30 year low!
However I don't see anyone coming out fighting for remaining in EC! I'm powerless to do anything except badger Politicians! Just about to enter Maires door this morning re my Carte Sejour, then realised all the cars parked outside were because she has her Council meetings on Monday mornings. Closed in afternoon, so I'll be there tomorrow morning to talk to her.
Chin up, Vero, easy to say I know not so easy to do though under the circumstances.
Shirley x
Yes it is !......(it always amazes me how often language, which is supposed to be able to pin down meaning is so open to misinterpretation...)
I am not thinking anything bad about the French or any other nationality......In the words of a brexiter friend of mine in the UK 'I love Europe, but I don't want to be part of an ever closer European Federation with a common curency or anything else 'common'. I want us to retain our individuality and value our differences and not have laws past that we have no power to change and that are decided by unelected people, behind our backs....'
Found an interesting link a few moments ago, that touches on the differences between Junker's & Tusk's outlook and the power struggles within the EU....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36619129
AND THIS....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36633605
Hi Frances,
I'm glad to hear that you are 'still hanging on in there'...despite these ridiculous laws.....I can understand that there should maybe be a preference for the French, then EU citizens, but that once anyone from anywhere else has applied for a work visa, then after say 4 years it should be possible to at least be able to set up your own business. France would benefit greatly from this I am sure....I cannot understand the 'Jurrassic' thinking behind this...
Another thought has occurred to me....I wonder if there is anyway of getting round this by settling up a business and being able to run it from France, but be registered in the UK or somewhere else.....any English speaking French company lawyers out there ?
Robert, I have never accepted first past the post and I will not accept that such a momentous decision can be based on such a slim majority. Anyway, having has time to consider this over the weekend I now convinced it's not gong to happen. It's not doable, especially if spoofers like Boris and Gove are leading it.