Hmmm I found plenty of newspaper articles but tried to find something that was neither loony-left nor mad-foaming-right so how about the Independent? http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-i-voted-referendum-jean-claude-juncker-europe-angela-merkel-bitter-arrogant-response-a7107336.html I think his ‘Pffffft’ dismissive remark when asked about talks with Theresa May pretty much showed his contempt!
2 Likes
I was referring to comments such as Hollande’s “There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price”. The threats that we must face a painful exit. I just find such rhetoric so unhelpful when the EU has never faced this situation before. It is surely vital that everyone remains adult, sensible and at least attempts to show an understanding of the difficult situation we all now face. The UK has not declared war on the EU, it simply allowed it’s people a democratic vote. The result of that vote has rocked not only the UK but obviously Europe and the rest of the world.
For me, the most important thing now is that the negotiations are meticulous in their planning, sensible, and fair. Threats before we reach the negotiating table do not help at all and, in my humble opinion, are childish and spiteful. Equally, speculation from the UK as to what we can expect from the negotiations are also ridiculously unhelpful. The simple fact is that no one knows how this will all unfold. However, In such a crisis I expect world leaders on both sides of the Channel to behave in a respectful, democratic and intelligent manner. Call me stupid but I live in hope … what else do we have?
2 Likes
Against
Surely all the other leaders are saying is, ‘You will not be able to have your cake and eat it.’ Not physical threats just the plain facts. The EU is a group that requires its members to give and take, the British press and many Leave voters want a situation where it’s more take and take. It’s not surprising that other leaders reacted the way they did. What do you mean about being adult? Surely it’s a mature reaction to explain to someone that they can’t change the balance of relations to their advantage and the rest of the group’s disadvantage and expect to get away with it. Only a very immature (or spoilt) person would expect that privilidge.
We shall have to agree to disagree David. It’s my personal opinion that some of the EU leaders have behaved in a less than mature fashion and I have been disappointed at that but you obviously don’t agree so I respect your opinion. As for having our cake and eating it - again, this is my humble opinion. I simply have never understood why that phrase is being banded about especially when the main complaint is that UK are frustrating EU members by NOT disclosing their agenda? If we haven’t yet cited our negotiating agenda how then can the UK be accused of demanding our cake and eating it? As far as I know we haven’t yet demanded anything so until the facts are actually laid bare all this type of rhetoric and surmising is not doing anything at all to help the situation. Again that’s my humble opinion on the issue. I don’t expect everyone to agree but that’s my view on the subject.
3 Likes
The cake and eat it phrase, if you remember, is a direct quote from Boris Johnson. He stated in an interview that the UK intended to do that very thing. Maybe he thought the EU leaders don’t keep tabs on what he says in the UK, maybe he thought they wouldn’t understand the meaning of the phrase - but they did read it and they did understand it, and they weren’t amused, and several of them made their own droll replies.
2 Likes
The problem is really that there IS no agenda, the government were taken by surprise and had no plan at all in place in the event of a vote to leave; as the vote to leave carried the day that left an utter shambles for them to sort out.
Completely half-baked of them and I don’t actually think they are being frightfully clever and playing their cards close to their chest etc, I think they still haven’t got the foggiest and it is brown trousers all round when they do think about it, because whatever they do they are in trouble in the short-term.
In any case their priority still seems to be internecine strife and jockeying for position within the party and the very material concern of how to negotiate brexit, while it creates a lot of hot air, is on the back burner because of the aforementioned party hackery…
1 Like
I voted out as well Sandy and have since been called names, accused of being a racist, xenophobic, bigot, homophobic etc, lost a few friends but frankly that doesn’t bother me, what does annoy me though are the self righteous people who say that deep down I realised I made a mistake…I can assure those people, after a lot of research I knew what I did the right thing.
5 Likes
ok …interesting…but could you tell me why you voted out?
Could you be better off personally ?
Barbara, I think we’re revisiting old ground here. No, I shan’t be better off personally - the exchange rate has wobbled and it’s possible we may have to contribute. I voted out purely because the original Referendum was to vote for a common market - not a federal superstate - and I believe that the European Union and Euro cannot survive. So if you’re on a speeding train heading to oblivion I’m happier to take my chances and jump off now. Is it difficult to believe that I can vote for something other than self interest as most Remainers I have spoken to have wanted to stay in because of their pensions, health care, residency etc., which is a single generation issue. Perhaps I can turn the question around. Why did you vote to Remain? Because truly I am baffled by anybody thinks that it’s better in the long term and for future generations to remain … in the same way that many Remainers cannot understand my reasoning, I’m struggling to see the long term benefits to stay in.
3 Likes
I never, ever jump off a moving train…for starters.
Secondly MY vote was obstructed. This was due to bad management.
Then I do believe that UK will become isolated and what is to happen
to " love thy neighbour" and then the banishing of Europeans, muslims, and any one who is not part of the club.
It is going backwards.
Yes…I suppose to add to that the security and stability of those who are
finding their own way abroad are to be scorned.
That’s not what I said Barbara. But many remainers have immediate self-interest as their primary motive which I entirely understand and some I’ve spoken to have stated only that as the basis for their decision with no look towards the long term nor for future generations. I acknowledge that their present circumstances and security are a major factor in their decision, and I understand and respect that. I certainly don’t scorn it nor think badly of anybody for whom that is the primary concern.
2 Likes
And for most of who want to remain in Europe …we too look to the future
and see a totally different view
We see that fresh interest in hatred developing and we are encouraging the young to close their minds to history.
It was the Polish and French soldiers who helped UK win the last war.
It was the European unity which brought new wealth and comfort to a
fairly poverty stricken country.
With Brexit many people will suffer…and to achieve what?
This is not fresh ground…but nothing…nothing at all has been solved.
Future generations? My three children all live in the UK and two of them were horrified by the result as it will make living their dreams to work in Europe far more difficult. They have professional qualifications so I am not talking about building, gardening or washing up .They, as did the vast majority of their friends and colleagues, voted remain.
1 Like
Fair point, I understand your views and concerns. We are never likely to agree on this.
1 Like
Ouch…David you are getting close!
gardeners, builders and washers- up are important in this world.
Yes it will be very difficult for people to come and go through Europe and to
seek opportunities
David Capability Browns ghost is moving to your area to have a little chat.
Where exactly do you live …not far from me.
Barbara, and everybody else, if you think we should stand together, I hope you have joined ECCREU. It is fighting for our rights as Britons abroad and is free to join.
No, I am stating a fact. These are young adults who were born in Europe who have gone through school and university in the U.K. and who have professional qualifications in Law and Architecture. They have never had an island mentality and saw the whole of Europe as a potential for work. The Lawyer will still have opportunities to work abroad as she is employed by a large firm with international offices but architectural practices have already cut back on their international work as their crystal balls are not programmed to see through the dense fog caused by Brexit. I was replying to the suggestion that most Leave voters were selfish elderly people who were only interested in their own immediate situation. The numbers show different. It was the older voters who voted to leave in the hope of returning to a better past, it was the younger voters who voted remain who were looking forward to the challenge of bringing the potential out of the EU. Not to worry, Barbara, if my children suffer in the UK they will be able to apply for a European country’s citizenship through birth then travel throughout the continent washing up and waiting to their hearts’ content. Unfortunately that is not exactly what they had planned for or worked towards.
David life does go on outside the world dominated by academic people.
Well paid jobs are not the only reward in life.
I have known very unhappy lawyers as well as unhappy chefs.
Venturing into life as a gardener or chef can have good rewards.
I could easily be inspired by Monty Don.
And even little me has enjoyed the adventures of being a chef and
being rated as one of the top 100 restaurants in UK…or was it 50.
Not every thing relates to a big house,3 kids and 2 cars.
Getting back to the reasons for leaving…well I am yet to hear any one give
me a clear and convincing reason for them to say “leave”.
What are you talking about? I am stating facts. Please don’t try convincing me that rated restaurants are the bees knees, my experiences tell me otherwise.