Utter balderdash Hilary. If there is no vision and no plan what hope is there of getting anywhere. The vision and plan have to come first.
I have no doubt that Westminister is as badly run as the EU, that is the nature of the Public Sector IMO. What evidence do you have of EU corruption?
You are, of course entitled to your strongly held opinion.....as am I....
The corruption has been highlighted in the press and through TV,...through links that I have previously posted at least 3 times...but you are not interested in my evidence. I think what ever I produced, you prefer your own hunches....so there is little point in continuing this, so I'm signing out at this point,as I have better things to do than go on 'flogging this dead horse'....
It's not my opinion, it is self evident that unless you know where you are going you are very unlikely to get there. It's ruddy obvious.
Hilary Jane do you really think that because you can assuage Brexit by saying you regret the pain makes a pennorth of difference. In fact it only rubs salt into the wound.
Hilary, we know there are problems with the EU, but Brexit is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I've just seen this on Twitter (yes, I know, I'm meant to be working on a deadline). Anyway, I think it's quite illustrative of the possible backlash the government/negotiators are going to encounter no matter how beneficial any agreement they reach, unless they adopt the 'hard brexit' approach and simply leave. (I personally don't like the all-inclusive use of "52% of us" as people actually voted on the simple question of in/out, not on the terms, but this lady sounds as though she was in a bit of a bad mood when she wrote it.)
"What utter rubbish. 52% of us voted for NO freedom of movement and NO single Market."
Patricia Bernier added,
Linda Yueh @lindayueh
52% of Brits would accept freedom of movement of people but 44% oppose making contributions to EU for a trade deal
Oh come on Jane, we all know there's no cronyism, corruption or traffic of influence in the UK!! Actually what I think is that Brexit supporters should put their money where their mouth is and live in the UK now that it is going to be heaven on earth, and not in the EU, dreadful place that it is, what with the rubbish health care, education, transport, FOREIGNERS etc etc etc
It is likely that everyone is going to run out of patience, many French and German and Spanish people are beginning to think well sod it, they don't want us, we don't want them either. So here is a modest proposal for non EU people from England and Wales wanting to live here in France. No living here unless you work and/or earn more than say 25000€ net a year, your spouse must earn at least the same, as the right to remain will be calculated on an individual basis, no staying here unless your level of spoken and written French is at least C1, no right to vote, obviously, and compulsory private health care and pension if not pensionable via work. Higher education will be charged for at the same rates as England. Obviously you will have to check in with the police regularly to show that your right to remain status is still up to date. As this is in line with what the Brexiteers want to happen in GB there shouldn't be a problem, should there?
This is the second time you have withdrawn from this interesting and at times informative thread - You remind me of my rather precocious and very opinionated 7 year old grand-daughter, who, when faced with people who disagree with her or offer an alternative disappears into her bedroom with forceful slamming of the door only to return some 30 minutes later with a newly formed reworking of her idea which she promotes as far better than anyone else's. Come on Hilary Jane you cannot make your, sometimes very provocative statements without expecting some form of riposte, that's the nature of debate and why your contribution is just as important as everybody else's.
You do see things in a 'glass half full' way, which is wonderful - I however am a cynical old man who's glass is always half empty and l hope upon hope that your belief that the exchange rate plummet is only temporary but unlike you l do believe that before the end of the 2 year Article 50 withdrawal period the pound is in for another bashing and that parity with the euro will become almost inevitable.
Exactly and I for one wouldn't meet those criteria so would have to take my son out of school, try and sell (except there may be a glut because I won't be the only one) and leave France with very little capital to be able to start again elsewhere. Is it what I'd hoped for for my son? Hardly. Lovely jubbly.
You are quite right to point this out Veronique, not that Brexiteers will take it on board. Whatever we offer EU citizens will be offered to expat Brits in return.
Same nonsense talked about using tradiung under WTO rules, but when the UK leaves the EU we will NOT, repeat NOT, be part of the WTO and will have to apply afresh with each member having the right of veto.
A hypothetical discussion:
Ambassador from Argentina. "Of course Mr UK Amabassador you can join the WTO, why would we object, just pop the deeds for the Malvinas in the post please and send us the cheque for war reparations, there's a good chap!"
The Brexiteers haven't got a clue about the real world, they would have difficulty expressing a joint view of what they want. The survey results make that quite clear. It is a bloody shambles from soup to nuts and slowly the UK is waking up to that fact.
I completely agree John and I have been saying this since a few days afterwards.
I'm in Lausanne at the moment and just noticed my non EU roaming charges are astronomical at €1.78 a minute or per text! The UK telcos must be rubbing there hands in anticipation.
Good point Peter. Gibraltar is stuffed as well.
Veronique, one would hope that the UK government will adopt a pragmatic approach and continue to fund the healthcare of those in receipt of an S1, as they only pay 70% of the cost here in France, but 100% if people were forced to return to UK and the strain on the NHS would be terminal.
The proportion of people wanting different things from Brexit shows the farce of a simple yes/no question.
Jane
I agree that the UK Gov't would like that deal but now look at it from a French perspective.
I quote for a hypothetical discussion. France might reasonably say, "Mr UK you know that there are lots of French people living and working in the UK, but their demographics are quite different, young, healthy, working placing few demands on the UK's social services, hospitals, schools etc. So yes Mr Uk you are paying for health services, etc and yes most, but not all, Brits are honest and pay taxes etc, but you place an extra laod on our health services and you push up the price of property making it more difficult for our young people to get on the housing ladder, etc
So its not really an equal trade so now you have left the EU we want a different arrangemnt, etc ..."
I have no idea what might happen but Brexit allows countries to ask themselves well what we do want from our relationship with the UK. As I have posted before each will want something different and that's why it will take a lot of time to get an EU wide deal and why when it arrives it will be a major compromise that will satisfy nobody.
Peter, surely France will not be keen to have a huge influx of its young people leaving UK and coming back to France where there are no jobs for them.
Unemployment is already at 11% here and any large rise in the unemployment figures will spell real difficulties for the French economy.
This all goes to show the difficulties of trying to find an equitable outcome in any discussions.
Perhaps we will gave to go and live in Portugal where the cost of housing and living is less?
Yes Jane that is precisely what it shows and from my discussiosn with a very small sample of French people living and working in the UK, the last thing they want is to return to France at least whilst they can enjoy the freedom of London.
As for moving to Portugal, well there is no doubt the cost of living is less than France, not too high a hurdle that one, but aside from the cost of selling, moving and buying, then I have to learn a new language and the economy is not that solid.
So not sure that I would choose that option but then I do not have a better solution either.
Portugal was really tongue in cheek, Peter.
Hi Jane
My apolgies but I am somewhat short on humour these days. If you send me your email address I will send you a copy of the article I was reading from one of my financial advisors and all round smart assess that I follow that may help to explain why.
The file is in .pdf format which this system does not accept.
Peter
