Hello. I've just received a humungous bill from the Revenu (Avis d'impot) demanding 1100 Euros for the above. This was totally unexpected, and scary. I own property here in France, and occupy it (have done for 6 years), pay all my income tax here (which was high this year), taxe fonciere, taxe d'habitation, URSSAF social charges, and now this. I live solely on a company pension, and taxes alone remove 20% of it.
In January, I will be 65 and officially a pensioner.
I gather that from July there is a new tax, but have been advised that this is for etrangers who own property in France, and who don't live here and who are not included in the fiscal system.
Is this true? Could this demand be in error? It seems it's a contribution to the country's debt - well, I don't mind helping them out a bit, but I didn't help them get into debt in the first place, and find this unannounced tax a bit of an imposition.
Anyone else find themselves in a similar boat? Don't the French want us, or something?
Chris
I didn't go to my local tax office- just amd an appeal by letter which was successful- at least for a partial reimbursement which I received promptly. Good luck with yours!
Just an update of this subject...I have been to L' Hotel des Impots 4 times and seen 5 different people, the last one actually agreed with me that we shouldn't have to pay this P.Sociaux, completed a form asking for a rebate which I signed...now we await and see, meanwhile we have had 2 more tax bills for tax revenu!!!!! We cant win...
Although my dear late Dad was a banker (died 64) I'm sure he would enjoy this too http://www.buggerthebankers.com/
What a great result! But what a nonsense you have been put through! Do you think the cozy functionaries ever go throgh similar situations? I rather doubt it! My only suucess was to get CSG reduced by about 1/3 and then also to get repaid a slug by a major UK financial institution this year for wrongful selling! It was an Italian friend who gave me a tip off from Rome about the latter and Survive France the former. My next issue is that after several months of failure against a French commune (not my own) I have now taken the matter to Monsieur Le Mediateur de France! This is a guy who got paid £6000 plus in damages by a French commune in 1991! Tally Ho!
I am pleased to confirm that the French tax authorities have withdrawn the tax bill. The good news arrived in the post today. It only took one letter to get this far.
Language Carol. Plus low taxes. As a resident, Switzerland is now impossible. New residents do not get the concessions those who have been there for years have had. We, being three out of four of us Swiss (girls are dual nationals), cannot afford to live there. Italy is several times more bureaucratic than France and their tax system a nightmare but Portugal would be a perfect nook to hide away in.
Different domiciles worked for myself and my husband. We have a main home in France...but own a flat in Newbury...that is my main residence.....in terms of the NHS I couldnt have afforded to be a French resident...at 58, and having lived in France for over two years....the insurances we were offered were extortionate and my hip was a pre-existing condition...so would have knocked us back over 12k. Having worked in the UK for most of the previous year and lived in the UK for 10 months or thereabouts....I qualified for NHS treatment.
We have enjoyed Xmas in Newbury and celebrated with family and friends...now in Inverness after a wonderful Hogmany...travelling back tomorrow.
I am not sure why Belgium is the choice of so many French fleeing the punitive taxes....I think I would have been more inclined to aim for Italy, Switzerland or Portugal! What annoys me with France is that it could be a far wealthier country with more comfortably off people if they sorted out their red tape, made employing people easier and encouraged business...instead of turning to taxes. It shows poor business sense and shows that France isnt willing to change...so will be in this same situation again and again till it learns some business lessons.
I know that there are lots of Brits in Spain in v difficult circumstances. I have noticed adverts recently for the sale of permanently moored mobile homes in England specifically aimed at expats returning from abroad. It's a sorry end to a dream for lots of people. I sort of accept that France is really quite a socialist country and one accepts to make some sort of contribution to the country we enjoy, provided it's not too much. For the really wealthy or those with big incomes France is much less attractive, but personally I wouldn't wish, like Depardieux, to live in Belgium. I hope that you are enjoying Newbury!
lol.....pleased to hear it!! I have had to be classed as dual resident because my wife and main home are in france but I am resident most of the year in the UK......as you say......end up paying out on both sides of the channel. The good news is I am finishing work (again) in April so will only have my private pension to worry about then!! I will be 55 in Jan......so a long time until we reach formal retirement age.
We have friends David who have homes in Spain...and they dont seem to be paying the national debt of Spain....but one of my friends is fighting for expats to receive any health care at all in Spain...where its so bad most pharmacies havent stocks of insulin or heart drugs for anyone....I think France is more comfortable in that sense....we also have friends in Portugal....who havent been hit with more than the normal rise in taxes....nothing outrageous.
You seem to have the worst of all worlds Dave! we are selling up in France and thats why we have our present situation....its not that I am fed up with other half...which is what it looked like when I read it back!!!! If you are under 65 then health wise surely you have to pay independently for health cover...as my OH did...he was paying cash for all health cover as he chose not to have an insurance policy. Why bother having dual nationality...sounds like with only 80 days in France you would be better off claiming UK domicile and using the NHS and avoiding some French taxes....?
HI Theresa
Could you let me have the details of your accountant.....might be useful to have down the line.......you can email me if you like?
Thanks
Dave
Herbiedave@aol.com
I have always used a french accountant who can speak english. Although the tax forms can be relatively easy to complete, everyone's situation is different. I felt it worthwhile to pay 175 euros per year to an accountant who completes the form for me and advises on any other tax matters. After all, it isn't just a matter of how much your income is, it is also how tax efficient you can be.
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Hi David
I did complete a french tax return and I am paying tax on my pension in France although I am paying tax and Ni in the UK on my salary. I am classed as dual resident. Therefore, as far as I can see, I dont need to pay this social charge as I am currently covered by the UK's NHS. Also when I finish work in April 2013 then I will be entitled to some form of S1 cover for a period of time afterwards.
Not sure how this works in relation to my wife though? She has no income but has spent more time than me in France
Cheers
Dave
Hi Carol
Thanks for the info. Its comforting to see someone whose life is as complicated as ours!! I returned to work in Jn 2011 and spend the majority of the year in the UK. i am classed as having dual residency......so pay tax on my private pension in France and pay tax and NI on my salary in the UK. Therefore, as i am able to use the NHS, I do not believe I should be paying the social charges in France. Or at the very least i should only be paying a very small proportion......for the approx 80 days I spent in France in the year in question?
Cant see why I need to pay for a service that I dont need to use or have never used!?
Cheers
Dave
You can appeal it but it will take some time and if you don't pay it and then appeal and lose you can suffer a surcharge which I believe is 10%, a substantial uplift. I have heard of an expat who left here with unresolved tax issues seeing the debt rise from 20k to 60k plus. There are not many who can afford to pay such punitive fines.
It seems to me that there is the possibility that you have not made a French tax return (even if it's nil) expaling where your income is and where it has been taxed. If you are already spending more time in the UK then in France it can be income taxed in the UK but there might still be some CSG to pay in France as the latter tax is not considered by the French to be income tax.
This year I have had a much smaller CSG which I have paid but appealed part of it as I was charged CSG on UK property income which apparently should not be. I am awaiting a full result but think I might get back about 1/3 of the CSG I paid.
I certainly think that for us to be paying for the French national debt is a bit of a stinker. I wonder what happens to the xpats in Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc.
You need to dedicate some time to this urgently and maybe get a specialist advisor. Local French accountants aren't up to it in my experience.
Dave it depends where you claim to live. If you spend the majority of the year in France and your home is here, then you pay French taxes. If you live mainly in the UK and your main address is there...you pay UK taxes. Whilst no fan of the French tax system....they cannot be expected to track your comings and goings and its down to you to decide where you are domiciled and pay taxes accordingly. My OH and I were living in France...and the taxes are indeed quite high...I decided I was bored and returned to the UK and work and live here...OH comes over once a month for a week. He is domiciled in France and pays French tax and I am domiciled in the UK and pay English taxes. Complicated...but it works for me. I needed a hip replacement, having lived in France for over 2 years and under retirement age, it would have cost me a small fortune.....not a problem for me as I have been back in the UK officially for over a year and got my hip replacement on the NHS.....OH not allowed to use NHS!
I too have just received my Avis for Prelevements Sociaux.........for the grand sum of 7,629 euros!!?? I was working in the UK during 2011 and spent the majority of the year in the UK............do I need to pay this!!?? Why should I contribute for a full year when I havent/couldnt use any of the services available in France. I have paid tax and Ni on my salary in the UK so had access to the UK health service. My private pension is being taxed in France..........my current thinking is.......what is the point of working!!??
Disillusioned......