http://tag-on-line.blogspot.fr/
Lots of info on this, it seems lots of folk have had these bill, on here. Hope it helps
Hi June, from what I have discovered about this tax it is a tax imposed on global income...Finn is the best one to answer your question though...Hope you can sort this out...4000 euros is no joke !!
Thanks for that Finn. I have read through this and it seems, as I understand it, is that they may have applied time limits on this, ie; the reference to not working employed or self employed for more than 24 months in a country. I cant understand how naive Europe is in general with Frances weasely ways. It always seems that whatever the law, Frances interpretation of it will always differ and you cannot argue the toss with them. In the UK nat. ins the equivalent of these social charges, is not levied on pensions as this has already been paid during the persons working life. Perhaps the UK is generous with regards to this? But how do other countries compare? I don't know. Anyway, watch this space, as I think the French will shoot themselves in the foot by relying on this tax. They never seem to bring in what the government say / predict and only serves to drive people away who contribute to the economy.
I have read most of the posts and am a little confused!
We have just received a bill for over 4000 euros, but my husband pays NI in UK and we have an S1, we are assuming that if we take the S1 to the tax office, then we should be OK.
Should this be the case
btw, we are not retired!
Hi Finn, you seem to be across the French taxation issues and I wondered if I could pose a question to you regarding CSG. I read an article recently written by the connection, although judging by what we are all experiencing I am not sure if it is correct. I have cut and pasted below a short answer in relation to some one who has a pension in the UK but is working here. Here it is:
There is a quid pro quo offset in that your liability to the French health system is compensated by the fact that you are paying a contribution to the health system through your employee social charges.
Accordingly, you should write to the French tax office, saying your UK pension is exempt from the social charges under EU law.
Otherwise, use a competent tax adviser here in France who will be accustomed to doing this, in order to have the social charges liability on your foreign pension stopped.
Does this mean that if you are working here, whether self employed or employed and paying tax on your working income and your social charges your liability to the French social charges has been satisfied and that no further liability is due on the UK pension, because you pay social charges through working here or are the connection wrong. Or does anyone else know the answer to this question? Oh, and for the record, my husband is an early retiree, but is now working self employed here and has been for the last 4 years and this is the first year we are now being told we will have to pay.
Found an interesting bit on another site/forum with regard to the Uk rental income, I can't remember which one as I have been reading up on this every where. I have cut and pasted and turned into a letter here is the copy of it if it helps.
Nous contestons le montant de €XXX de prélèvements sociaux qui constitue un impôt français sur les revenus fonciers provenant du Royaume-Uni. Selon la convention de 9 Janvier 2010 entre la France et le Royaume-Uni ces revenus sont imposables en Royaume-Uni, comme ils étaient imposables en Royaume-Uni selon la convention précédente.
La convention se trouve ici:
http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptive_5835/fichedescriptive_5835.pdf
Les extraits ci-dessous:
Selon Article 1b) ci-dessous, les prélèvements sociaux sont un “impôt français”.
Selon Article 6, les revenus fonciers provenant de la location d’un bien immobilier situé dans Royaume-Uni sont imposables en Royaume-Uni.
Selon Article 24, les revenus qui sont imposables au Royaume-Uni et pris en compte pour le calcul de l’impôt français mais le résident de France a droit, à un crédit d’impôt imputable sur l’impôt français. Ce crédit d’impôt est égal au montant de l’impôt français correspondant à ces revenus à condition que le résident de France soit soumis à l’impôt du Royaume-Uni à raison de ces revenus.
Article 1b) en ce qui concerne la France, tous les impôts perçus pour le compte de l’Etat ou de ses collectivités locales, quel que soit le système de perception, sur le revenu total ou sur des éléments du revenu, y compris les impôts sur les gains provenant de l’aliénation de biens mobiliers ou immobiliers, les impôts sur le montant global des salaires payés par les entreprises, ainsi que les impôts sur les plus-values, et notamment :(i) l’impôt sur le revenu ;(ii) l’impôt sur les sociétés ;(iii) la contribution sociale sur l’impôt sur les sociétés ;(iv) la taxe sur les salaires ;(v) les contributions sociales généralisées ;(vi) les contributions pour le remboursement de la dette sociale ;(ci-après dénommés « impôt français »).
Article 6 Revenus immobiliers. Les revenus provenant de biens immobiliers (y compris les revenus des exploitations agricoles ou forestières) situés dans un Etat contractant sont imposables dans cet Etat.3. Les dispositions du paragraphe 1 s’appliquent aux revenus provenant de l’exploitation directe, de la location ou de l’affermage, ainsi que de toute autre forme d’exploitation des biens immobiliers.
Article 24 Elimination des doubles impositions3. En ce qui concerne la France, les doubles impositions sont éliminées de la manière suivante :a) nonobstant toute autre disposition de la présente Convention, les revenus qui sont imposables ou ne sont imposables qu’au Royaume-Uni conformément aux dispositions de la présente Convention sont pris en compte pour le calcul de l’impôt français lorsqu’ils ne sont pas exemptés de l’impôt sur les sociétés en application de la législation interne française. Dans ce cas, l’impôt du Royaume-Uni n’est pas déductible de ces revenus, mais le résident de France a droit, sous réserve des conditions et limites prévues aux alinéas (i) et (ii) et au paragraphe 4, à un crédit d’impôt imputable sur l’impôt français. Ce crédit d’impôt est égal :(i) pour les revenus non mentionnés à l’alinéa (ii), au montant de l’impôt français correspondant à ces revenus à condition que le résident de France soit soumis à l’impôt du Royaume-Uni à raison de ces revenus."
Nous avons également était imposé à ces prélèvements sociaux en 2011. Nous voulons faire aussi une demande de remboursement de montant payé en 2011 il s’agit de un total de €XXX en 2011. Copie d’avis de 2011 et 2012 ci jointe.
heard from OH...the bill is called a 'contribution' and it clearly states its for people living in France with income from abroad......obviously a 'tax' and it is a tax...it looks like a tax and smells like a tax, which will most usually affect ex pats from abroad...and the said income we have paid tax on once already...so its not a usual community charge...its levied mainly at foreigners...
why is it in France...you always have to 'go' somewhere...? in the UK I do almost everything by email, a bit by mail and a tiny bit by phone...but I never have to 'go' anywhwere....
I have just been on the phone to Newcastle and they have said that we have to go to where we registered originally (2001 in Gueret for me and 2004 Limoges for my husband) and they will confirm the E121/S1 status. I didn't manage to speak to the helpful Diane!!
Well wish we had known that but we have been here for over 4 years and have paid taxes in both UK and France as I have a NHS Pension as well....thought we had it all covered doing that haha!! Still its been a good 4 years and we are looking on this as an extended holiday, I dont mind going back as I miss the grandchildren but OH is not happy :O(
No Finn...last year he paid 4000k plus....and this year he received a bill for 800....when he queried this with his accountant...the accountant told him they had made a mistake and it should be 5000 plus...we havent got a bill for that... yet! I will ask him what it says on the 800 euro one...or the 4000 from last year...but I am thinking...I didnt work in 2010...in 2011 I did work, in the UK, and added a substantial amount to our income...I think it would be based on our income...increased last year because I worked in the UK...will tell you more..once I know...but I think a divorce would put us in a much better position financially...
ah...understand Maria...you are renting out your UK house and renting a property for yourselves in France....good idea....you are in a much better position. So then you are being taxed on your income from your British rental...dont understand this...unless you basically advised everyone that you were making a permanent move to France and pay all your taxes here....which is a shame as you need not have done that...you could have taken a years stay in France...and carried on as normal.
No Carol, we rent our house here and just have to give 2 months notice....we thought that was best for us and until this year it has been, praps still is as we dont have to wait forever to move back :o)
I think the bubble has burst for certain properties in particular locations. Ours isnt that expensive...around 425k....and from what friends tell me, there is a good market for properties in this price range in Provence, and I guess some other areas.....in the Dordogne not so good. I would rent it out if I wasnt such a pussy and scared of ending up in a worse predicament!
so you will leave your property empty? will you use it for holidays or sell it?
Am sure then it isnt for health...he is basically treated now as a private patient....having so said he is fit...! he has one longterm condition that requires once a year bloodtests and one tab a day...so he isnt splashing the cash on health care.
2004 !!!!! OMG...We can go back as soon as our tenants leave the property, this is what all our prelevements sociaux has been about, the rental income but they have only taxed us 8.20% on two-thirds of the rental, just dont understand how it is calculated at all.....
well if you do decide to return...hope its quicker than we are managing..our property went on the market Feb 2011....one of our agents said it was no time at all..they have one property that has been for sale since 2004!
Hi Finn have sent a friend request so I can pm you and @Carol thanks and dont worry I have been monaning since we received this and now we are also thinking of returning to England next year....
Interesting...he doesnt have any cover...he has taken out no cover and has signed nothing, and been sent nothing to suggest otherwise. When he visits the doctor he pays the full whack, usually around 22euros and for his drugs he also pays. He had cover for the first two years...then when he sent in request for refunds it was refused on the grounds he was under 65 and had used up his two years health cover.