where has everyone gone!!!
Ha ha! I'm now going to think of you as Mark "Kitten drowning" Rimmer! :)
Cx
Whilst having the same compassion I think many people share your honest views Barbara.
How will the people find their way to Monsegur for instance.
Will you Lorraine provide transportation and guidance to your home.
Then support the family or group of people with food....help them
to settle in your region and to put a hold on your own life?
I have to be honest.
This was my dream home and like many of you I have given up a lot
to be here. Yes I/we manage but we have and we do make sacrifices
in order to reach this finale.
I am not without compassion...
I am not lonely.
I am being practical.
It was the same reaction as Nick Ut's shot of Phan Thị Kim Phúc badly burned by napalm running down the road. The other children in the picture have never attracted attention at all. The number of children 'rescued' in Viet Nam and subsequently a big number of adoptions of Vietnamese children worldwide, including here in France, grew almost overnight. In fact, Kim Phúc who is now Canadian and a medical doctor, spoke to the press regarding the picture of Aylan Kurdi and said she hoped it had the same effect as her picture. It is something that plays on people's emotions, sometimes on the bad consciences or feelings of guilt, which makes them reactive with the outcome that goodwill breaks out like a rash. I am a supporter of the input of the public BUT I do think people need to look before they leap. They need to ask themselves whether they can bear the burden and responsibility as well as cost, face stress, disappointment and even conflicts. Some people may be in for a long haul and they need to take that into account. The war will go on quite some time and in its aftermath we have no idea what there will be. If it is an IS Sharia state then none of them will want to go home, much the same if it becomes international with far greater devastation. We simply do not know, guessing and hoping will not see people going home for quite some time, if ever. So yes, emotional responses great but over-reactive actions not always good.
I find it interesting that the outpouring of concern & offers of help (good to see before I am once again considered a black hearted swine who drowns kittens for a living!) has only just occurred despite the fact that families incuding young children have been drowning in their hundreds for some while! I wonder where these people were when the news of these deaths first broke. Why did it take a photograph to motivate the good will?
Sorry Peter, I will know more about everything tomorrow, so I will let everyone know.
Thanks,
Laraine.
Please don't shout!
No need for capitals Laraine, we get the message.
What would be useful to know is the responsabilities of the house owner offering accommodation. Are they expected to feed and clothe their 'tenants' for example ?
Many people I know are struggling to pay their bills as it is mind you some of us probably could support these people without any financial hardship.
Would a 'bail' or renatl agreement need to be drawn up ? Would the house insurance need to be amended ? Would the stay be short-term or long-term etc etc etc ?
It's ok helping out but the practicalities need to be addressed surely ?
I HAVE BEEN SENT A EMAIL TO THE ASSOCIATION FOR REFUGEES IN PARIS THIS AFTERNOON, OFFERING TEMPORARY ACCOMMODATION FOR THESE POOR REFUGEES THAT FRANCE IS NOW TAKING, (I BELIEVE IT IS 28,000 ON THE NEWS)SO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, OPEN YOUR HOMES, BARNS, BUILDINGS GITES, HOLIDAY HOME TO HELP THESE REFUGEES.
I AM LOOKING FOR ACCOMMODATION IN ; THE GIRONDE. LOT ET GARONNE, DORDOGNE, SOUTH AQUTAINE
SEND ME WHAT ACCOMMODATION YOU CAN OFFER,
WHAT DEPART THE ACCOMMODATION IS.
HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU CAN SLEEP IN THE ACCOMMODATION
IF YOU PREFER TO SEND ME A PM PLEASE DO.
I WILL CALL PARIS TOMORROW TO SEE HOW THE SYSTEM WILL WORK AND PASS ON THE INFORMATION TO YOU ALL.
THANK YOU
Just read it all Brian, it makes one want to weep, if one cares enough of course, which you, I and many many others here do do of course, witness the replies to this discussion.
I am very concerned by the financial statistics also, about the money running out to provide aid to the countries and their populations.
I also deplore the British media, who are more interested in headlines to sell papers, and TV programmes thAt xo t give enough serious coverage to the situation, except the news in their pretty short bulletins on the whole situation. UK TV listings make it look as though all is normal!
Just heard on BBC news, confirmed UK will take 20,000 France will take 28,000 I think, unless I misheard, France is 3 times the site of UK. even speaking to my son last last night, when I mentioned the crisis, it was just a platitude response, yes it’s terrible! No passion or compassion in his voice. Today I went to the Mairies, no Maire there, a council member, secretary and the one who looks after the post office counter. we only have 500+ living in this village, so we Re lucky. None of the staff knew, at the time, whether or not we here would take any in, or about the Gov plan! I have offered my services if needed for talking English, the committee member said I was Très gentille, end of conversation! Don’t know what else to say!
I don't know who to approach, perhaps some of the members of SFN will know, but I would be very happy to offer
accommodation to any refugees. I have a huge Barn which I am sure could be utilized into accommodation. I have family staying in my house for next month, but after that I have 2 bedrooms available.
It there are any other people who have accommodation they can utilize maybe they could also think about accommodation for they poor children and their families. Please call me if you have any accommodation to offer. Thank you.
If only there was a cure; gites for the winter or rooms in Bob Geldofs homes...
garments sent to Calais to combat the sorrow of winter.
There is a lot of compassion still left in the world but it seems to have got lost amongst
the evil.
It is in the hands of those with power.
Things are now going from bad to worse. The UN agencies engaged in work with refugees are in a state of collapse. This is just the clearest and most comprehensively written report:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/06/refugee-crisis-un-agencies-broke-failing
Receiving countries are also coming to breaking point. The UK government has still not concluded how many people they are willing to take in when urgency is required. They are making the entire nation look cowardly when many, many individuals are offering help.
Here you are Doreen. Rodin and Dante, (Brian even with his research and answers), may well have envisaged what was to come in the future, many times over, we are now in another “Gates of Hell” situation. Are we not?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Le_penseur_de_la_Porte_de_lEnfer_(mus%C3%A9e_Rodin)_(4528252054).jpg
Originally named The Poet (French: Le Poète), the Thinker was initially a figure in a large commission, begun in 1880, for a doorway surround called The Gates of Hell. Rodin based this on The Divine Comedy of Dante, and most of the many figures in the work represented the main characters in the epic poem. Some critics believe The Thinker, at the centre of the composition over the doorway and at about 70 cm high larger than most other figures, was originally intended to depict Dante at the gates of Hell, pondering his great poem. However, there are questionable aspects to this interpretation, including that the figure is naked, Dante is fully clothed throughout his poem, and that the figure, as used, in no way corresponds to Dante’s effete figure.[1] The sculpture is nude, as Rodin wanted a heroic figure in the tradition of Michelangelo, to represent intellect as well as poetry.
Barbara, I am a researcher and whilst I have developed skills as a trainer, teacher, evaluator and a bit more, I can take what I can out of what I observe in research and turn that into training on methods of working with things. I have absolutely no skill whatsoever at creating solutions. That is for people with very different skills to mine, therefore I do not pretend to be able to say what anybody should do. I can make suggestions based on what individuals could do. The big decisions are for politicians and their advisers for right or wrong.
Brian your knowledge, information and command of all these elements is impeccable.
But I do not detect a solution.
We can go around in many circles of flowing details but there needs to be a dynamic
source of action .
Please read this:
https://www.facebook.com/mike.lavin.9/posts/10153768315617176?fref=nf
This is what the government are doing. The opposition in the civil war is no better, IS is worse.
Go back to page 3 and you will see the numbers I put up. From the Middle East at present we have over 10 million on the move and that will unquestionably increase. Then there are the people in Africa although most stay on that continent. But let us simply say that refugees, without any other migrants, outnumber the population of many of the 195 nation states in the world. Ascertaining whether people are refugees or not is easier than you think. Most get a refugee ID card from UNHCR when they cross borders, the majority spend at least a few days in one of the camps for which they must register. Austria and Germany are not processing applications from those who turn up with no form of ID, the Swiss are even stricter. Ideally they have a passport or ID from their country of origin with a photograph on at least one of them. Forgeries are easily spotted now. None of the mass leaving Hungary at present is travelling without their refugee status on paper at the very least.
The young man you refer to is one of the few among the many exploiting the situation but nonetheless part of the under 5% who are not refugees although with the civil war and IS situation if he can prove he is unable to return he is actually entitled to refugee status under international law. Five years ago there was no civil war, that started in 2011, so I guess we too must make allowances under the circumstances. If he is pulling a fast one, that is not good at all, but unless he has permission to stay in any country he is considered to be seeking refuge, in other words a refugee.
Those of us who specialise in work with children would not entirely agree. Certainly when children are separated from families or are sent to safety by them, take them in until they can be reunited with family. The problem is that children who are separated suffer far greater trauma than when they are accompanied. They become afraid something will happen to their family, they will be kidnapped and various other fears. Therefore, when we know families are also in need we try to take them as a unit. Of course, if it is an abusive family then of course not. Several of my work areas take that into account. Anyway, the point is that none of it is easy.
I realise you have a really good understanding of the crisis, Brian, and also a great grasp of past history....I also fully agree politics should play absolutely no part in this. My worry is the sheer weight of numbers mean it is now nigh on impossible to properly investigate and be discerning in prioritising catagories and need.
It has been selfish of those that are economic migrants to demand the same refugee 'rights' as those in dire need, but I don't agree with your figures of percentage. I think economic migrant numbers are a lot higher..e.g. Today a 'refugee' was interviewed on TV and, towards the end of the interview, it transpired he left Damascus 5 years ago, and had spent time in Turkey, which was and is still a tourist destination! he has then travelled through a futher 4 safe countries to reach Austria, still not his final choice of destination. Now I have to ask why that articulate and pleasant young man should still be classed as a refugee fleeing a war situation? If only each country was talking in the tens of thousand to be taken in but, also taking into account those from Africa that intend to make their way to Europe for permanent re-settlement, it doesn't take a high IQ to realise that the numbers at this rate will be counted in millions, and that that is untenable, as resources cannot (not will not) stretch to that, or any way close to that. There cannot possibly be enough jobs and services funded by the indiginous populations to fascilitate this number of people. That is what has to be taken on board and admitted, before taking in folks, ID card issues, and everything else, and the message must start to be given out that if each country takes in lots of people for the moment, they may well have to be returned in the future to their own country as soon as safe.
That said, priority has to be swiftly given to unaccompanied children from war zones, until such time as they can safely re-join their families. Hopefully as long as it doesn't encourage these expensive and perilous journeys we're seeing ending in tragedy.