So who would you vote for in France

Oh yes she was😁

Likewise LOL.

Quote from Wiki:

Described as more democratic and republican than her nationalist father, Le Pen has led a movement of “de-demonization of the Front National” to detoxify it and soften its image, based on renovated positions and renewed teams, also expelling controversial members accused of racism, antisemitism, or pétainism. She finally expelled her father from the party on 20 August 2015 after new controversial statements.[12][13]

She has also relaxed some political positions of the party, advocating for civil unions for same-sex couples instead of her party’s previous opposition to legal recognition of same-sex partnerships, accepting unconditional abortion and withdrawing the death penalty from her platform.

Kinda different from your description. :slight_smile:

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If there is a clash between Sharia law (which is in any case not a unified corpus in that there are 4 schools of law and many interpretations) and the Code Civil, the Code Civil wins, that’s that.
We are explicitly a République laïque, which means that we have separation between religious institutions and the State, but religious freedom including the freedom to have no religion is guaranteed for all. Individual expression of religious practice is fine as long as it doesn’t prevent anybody else’s liberty to do things differently and vice versa. Muslims praying in the street doesn’t bother anyone more than open-air public mass.
What does bother people is the conflation of religion and politics and the instrumentalisation of religion for political ends.
I remember vast amounts of chuntering about the niqab/yashmak/burka ban from people in GB when it first came in here, but you see plenty of people wearing a hijab - so it just a question of degree and what the law says.
It used to be the case here that girls could marry at 15, and a tiny tiny minority did; that has been changed since we noticed French girls of N. African origin were being carted off in the school holidays to marry someone their parents had decided they would marry, against their wishes - so now everyone has to be 18 to get married. If it happens, the marriage is invalid and the parents are prosecuted. The Code Civil wins.

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These younger Muslims ARE FRENCH.

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Oh dear ; The gatestone institute. A bunch of extreme right wing purveyors of selective news. Organisation set up to stir up fears over Islam.

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He doesn’t get it I’m afraid Vero.

Frankly, I’ve been watching this Thread from afar and enjoying the banter… but when Wiki gets quoted… as if it is to be believed… then that is enough :scream:

Wiki is only as good as the info it is given… says so quite clearly in their Disclaimer…(found at the foot of each of their pages)… but I suppose most folk don’t bother to read the small print…

byee

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In denial, dismiss anything that reports events contrary to your own naive beliefs. Prove me otherwise.

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Not all French some are of African origin and Arabic anyway the main point is the offenders are muslim whether they are French or some other nationality.

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One could say the same for any publication even the bible.

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Obviously neither do you.

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The point is that you can be of any ethnic origin and still be French. The difference between a brown or black or yellow French person and a pinkish-beige French person is simply that the pinkish-beige ones are a majority and it is easy for them to make knee-jerk value judgments at a distance according to a load of stereotypes, if they are judging other pinkish-beige people they actually have to talk to them or see them doing something in order to dislike them.

The reason the FN divides us so deeply in France is because within living memory we have had a government and a political structure (l’Etat Français) which not only actively colluded with an appalling régime which invaded and occupied half the country but also went beyond its imposed remit, sending to their deaths people both French and refugees from elsewhere, for completely spurious reasons, with the active support of a considerable part of the population who haven’t really changed their opinions much.

It was all pretty much swept under the carpet in the interests of avoiding civil war after WW2 but those attitudes are still fairly well entrenched. And when you see MLP cosying up to the likes of Geert Wilders or Janusz Korwin-Mikke out of political expediency it doesn’t bode well at all. I don’t want that attitude in government in my country, either of them.

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I suppose these are extreme right wing publications

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/19/what-french-muslims-think-about-frances-secular-laws/?utm_term=.ba592b6c0bf6

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/17/french-bar-tells-women-isnt-paris-men/

Not all papers are ‘right wing’ as you put it.

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Do you live in France? Why don’t you quote our media?

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Isn’t the last one French? thelocal.fr. Anyway does it matter?

http://www.france24.com/en/20160918-france-under-30-percent-french-muslims-reject-secular-laws-poll-finds

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Well done Lee Bentley, treat yourself to a large scotch tonight, you have been under attack from the few and you have single handedly held your own in some very good discussions with people with opposite views to your own.
When Barbara put this post on i thought let’s get ready for the powder kegs to explode and we did not have to wait long.

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I have a nice 12yr old single malt in the garage, thank you Michael.

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So over 60% don’t have a problem with them. And as for the almost 30% who don’t agree, well, they are allowed to disagree, we don’t all think all laws are good or fair or right - that doesn’t alter the fact that they are the law, we can mutter but we have to abide by them and if we contravene them, we take the consequences.

The Local is not French, it talks about news in France in English from an English-speaking person’s point of view; this is how they describe themselves: “The Local is an English-language digital news publisher with local editions in Sweden, Germany, France, Spain, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Austria and Italy.”

Yes it does matter because you don’t interpret what you see the way we do and while I can quite understand you prefer to read the news in your own language, be aware that you miss out on a lot of nuances by not reading in French.

And the JDD is notoriously right-wing so if they commissioned a poll from IFOP canvassing Muslim opinions about French law, then how neutral is it going to be?

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Yo ho ho should be a bottle of rum.