What is a fair hourly rate for unskilled labor?

I am interested in hiring people on a part time basis for work that involves little experience. I am willing to tolerate mistakes and to teach as we go. For example, painting. In the US, $15 /hour is considered acceptable and there is no shortage of help for that rate. In the countryside in France, I am expecting that rate or somewhat lower. I will be living in Aveyron, seven miles from Rodez. Any help?

Thank you!

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Hi Roland,

Legal minimum salary is 9,76 euros per hour (less 20% for interns). It might be a good start.

Christian

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As long as you are a private individual and not a business, the simplest way to ā€˜employā€™ people for a few hours here and there as required is to use the CESU system http://www.cesu.urssaf.fr/cesweb/emplnes1.jsp which was set up for precisely this.
Few people would expect more than minimum wage (SMIC) for unskilled work. On top of that youā€™ll pay their social contributions which will bring it up to around 14ā‚¬ an hour. If youā€™re a taxpayer youā€™ll probably qualify for a refund of at least part of the social contributions It can all be done online and is relatively simple.
Best avoid getting into employment as such, French employment law or social law can be a nightmare for the employer, lots of obligations and restrictions, lots of protection and rights for the emloyee. You cannot for instance hire and fire people on a casual basis, you can only offer temporary employment in certain circumstances, and once youā€™ve give an employee a contract you need a very good reason to fire them before the end of that contract.
Having said all that - CESU is for general help around the house, but if youā€™re actually looking for construction / renovation type work, I donā€™t think you can use CESU for skilled trades. Doing a bit of painting and general handyman stuff - ok; re-roofing, building a wall, major plumbing - non.

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the two previous posts have answered the obvious - smic and chĆØque emploi - if youā€™re close to Rodez there are loads of people at Bosche amongst others who set themselves up as auto entrepreneurs to do general DIY work to earn a bit more. 10ā‚¬ to 15ā‚¬ an hour sounds right to me for unskilled labouring, you just need to find someone now, ask lcally and try leboncoin too :wink:

Iā€™m not sure on hourly rate but I would be interested in the job u offer I am a painter both by brush and spray and a perfectionist and take great pride in my work Iā€™m also good at a lot of other things - wood work, brick , Iā€™m willing to negotiate wage .

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Hello Christopher,

Where do you live? This is near Rodez, Aveyron. Middle of nowhere.

Lā€™impolitesse est lā€™imitation de force dā€™une personne faible.
ā€“Inconnu

absolutely not the middle of nowhere, Roland, never talk about the aveyron like that! :wink:

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I wouldnā€™t get involved in any of that complexity. I pay the lady that looks after my house and my gardner 15 quid an hour in the hand. Very simple and everyone is happy. The more paperwork the French system thorws at me the more I resist it :slight_smile:

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Ha!

That is according to my Bordelaise friends!~

ā€œWhy would you ever want to live in the Aveyron,ā€ they say.

Lā€™impolitesse est lā€™imitation de force dā€™une personne faible.
ā€“Inconnu

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I like your approach the most, John Scully. Itā€™s not the money as much as the time required that can be so draining.

Thank you.

Lā€™impolitesse est lā€™imitation de force dā€™une personne faible.
ā€“Inconnu

It might be better not to state that in a public forum!
In the event of ā€˜hidden workā€™, both the employee and the employer can expect to face stiff sanctionsā€¦ and private individuals are by no means exempt from this!

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I think itā€™s all about sharing info with fellow members so I did :slight_smile: Being a foreigner Iā€™m guided by my French pals who all seem to think itā€™s OK in moderation. Itā€™s only buttons after all. Any serious work Iā€™ve had done has been through registered professionals and companies but Iā€™ve no intention of becoming an ā€œemployerā€, whatever that involves, to get my darning done. Iā€™m already tied up in knots de Auto-entrepreneuring" myself.

Thanks John,

We consulted with a couple of accountants and seem to have arrived at a good way to organize: He suggested we buy the property as individuals, but immediately set up a full corporation to create and begin operating the business (gites and chambres dā€™hotes). This way we can pay the tradesmen through the corporation since their work will primarily be for the business end of our property, and recover our VAT expenditures legitimately. The receipts we will separate into ā€˜businessā€™ and ā€˜personalā€™, then send those and our other business records to that our quarterly and annual obligations, filings, etc, can be handled by the accounting company for the tidy sum (for them, anyway) of around $2,000.

A lot of tasks will be one-time or occasional ā€˜gigsā€™. We then have the choice of hiring those people through the corporation, paying them as contractors and avoid becoming full-time employers. The other work that will be required may be accommodated by very part time individuals who are wiling to accept an arrangement that is not onerous or heavy in paperwork and government process.

Also, I was informed that any ā€˜friends or relativesā€™ should not be seen to be working on the property. So if they want to lend a hand it is strictly informal.

Ciao.

Lā€™impolitesse est lā€™imitation de force dā€™une personne faible.
ā€“Inconnu

Hi Tony,

Iā€™m assuming the enforcers would need three things to make an issue of this: 1) a denunciation; and 2) follow-up; and 3) a strong enough case to make an issue of it.

The only thing I know of denunciations in France is that they were quite popular during the Nazi occupation. The rest, not sure.

Ciao.

Lā€™impolitesse est lā€™imitation de force dā€™une personne faible.
ā€“Inconnu

Rolandoā€¦

I have been given the following guidelines:

A teenager to help clear the garden (for example), with parental consent of course, a few euros pocket money is OK.

With anyone of employable age+: No cash to change hands. It is acceptable to reward with a nice meal, or maybe a bottle of Pastis/whisky etc etc.

Cash-in-hand never really stays a secret for longā€¦and this has nothing to do with the troubled times France has endured in the pastā€¦

Paying someone ā€œon the blackā€ is frowned on more and more severely, not only by the Government but also by the ordinary person, who does declare Income and pays whatever Tax is due.

Proceed with cautionā€¦

Thank you Stella.

Lā€™impolitesse est lā€™imitation de force dā€™une personne faible.
ā€“Inconnu

sir i am intrested in your work .plz reply me if you need any help from me . i am a skilled painter ans intrested in your work

Hello Jatt and welcome to the Forum.

You have replied to a thread which is 3 years oldā€¦ so may not be pertinent now.

However, in case the original poster or anyone else is interestedā€¦

Are you resident in Franceā€¦ and do you have a Siret/Siren number ??

cheers

yes mam i live in france i need a job i am skilled painter so if you need me please reply

and sorry mam i dont have siren or siret number :confused: . srry