This sums up how different we are. I love driving 2CVs but cringe at the thought of a Jeep Wrangler. Each to his own.
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When you think about it, not that much difference. The 2cv was supposed to be able to drive over a ploughed field, but the Wrangler can. Can take the roof and doors off from both of them, the Wrangler is powerful, capable, reliable, comfortable and easy to drive. The 2cv…isn’t.
yea but you wouldn’t take the jeep home to meet your mum
The 2CV is reliable and comfortable and a lot of fun to drive. The Jeep is just not my sort of thing, big, inefficient and ugly. No contest. As I said, each to their own.
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Quite right, David, just because I do not like tattoos does not mean that I hate the people who have them. I am not a fan of the 2CV because as a garagiste they are a pain to work on! It does not mean I hate the people in them.
Its a wonderful thing that laws exist that protect us from the likes and dislikes, of others…Or almost everyone in UK especially, would find my own preferences very wearisome. Tattoos?! Why would I give them a moments thought? Obesity, drunkenness, ugly architecture, etc…a million other concerns of mine, might organise most of the world’s populations into entirely new lifestyles…
“more recently” ? You mean in the last 30 years. You seem not only to have a strong opinion about tattoos, but are prejudiced against anyone who has one or more, and it seems that your deeply ingrained opinion is that anyone who has them is knuckle dragging scum and women with them are little more than low class whores.
I think this says more about you than it does bout tattooed people. Personally I like them. I class them as art. I’ve seen some stunning, imaginative and creative ones. I have one which was on my bucket list and I used it to raise £100 for Greenpeace by way of people sponsoring me.
I happen to like mine and do not regret getting it. My late Father (a soldier) also had tattoos.My son has tattoos, all of which have some meaning for us.
Your post is full of insulting references to the sort of people who have tattoos and how you regard them.well I think you are a self important, judgmental twat who probably worked either as a traffic warden or accountant or in local planning .
Personally, I can’t stand fat blokes. Why would anyone willingly eat so much that they carried kilos of unsightly blubber? They are obviously lazy and lack willpower otherwise they’d do something. I personally could never do business with any kind of person with mounds of quivering dimpled pasty white flesh and several chins. If they have no sense of self respect, I don’t think they can have any respect for doing a decent job for me.
I suppose I’d rather see a tattooed man walking towards me, than a fat bloke waddling and huffing towards me. At least the tattooed bloke thinks something of himself, has considered the artistic merits of his ink instead of only thinking about what morsel of food he can shove into his gob next.
Actually I don’t actually give a stuff about tattoos, piercings, hair colour, tall or short or anything else. Caring about how someone else looks would make me shallow and judgemental.
I wrote the stuff about fat people because you are fat and I wanted to make you feel uncomfortable and upset, in order to demonstrate that:
a/ you are in no position to be judging others on how they look (you don’t look so hot yourself mate.
and
b/ it feels really horrible when you get judged on your appearance doesn’t it?
You don’t like tattoos, don’t get one, the same as I wouldn’t get a ring through my nose/nipple/eyebrow, but I wouldn’t judge anyone who did. Their bod, their money, their choice.There’s a bit in the bible I believe (not that I believe any of that hogwash) which says “judge not, lest ye be judged”. It’s not nice and makes you look like a complete nasty little twat.
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" I found people would look at me, then quickly down at my tattoo, then back up and their expression had changed, like they’d formed an opinion and had judged me".
You came across people like Mark then. Shallow people who feel superior to others and need to find something to judge them on. I feel pity for judgemental people, I guess they are pretty insecure in themselves that they have to do something to make themselves feel superior to another human being. Shame you had it removed because you too were insecure and felt you needed the good opinion of strangers.
In fact, I only have one tattoo, but in the light of this thread, I am going to book an appointment next week for a couple more. Bollocks to anyone who looks down their nose at me because I have them. That says more about them than me!
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Good on you Pam. I don’t need other’s approval, but my own opinion of me had changed. A bit like having a hairstyle for many years and then deciding to change. Suited me then, doesn’t suit me now. I still mull from time to time on having another since there are so many lovely designs and rich colours. Anyway, have fun with your tattoo. There are some brilliant ones out there. Google ‘watercolour tattoos’ … they are sensational!
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wow!!! They are stunning. My Dad’s were just blue. One said “In memory of my dear old Dad” in a banner held by a pair of swallows, and the other was a copy of his army cap badge.
I want an ‘all seeing eye’ on the back of my neck under my hair, and another which is the ‘Pad’s brat’ symbol, a dandelion head with the seeds being blown in the wind. I really like the idea that after my death, when I’m laying on the slab in the doctor training school (donating myself to medical science) those young men will look at my wrinkled old carcase and be able to get a sense of what I was like when I was younger.
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So you are entitled to judge Mark?
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We-ell, SOME tattoos are art but I have to say in my line of work I have seen many that were quite obviously done using a compass by someone whose job it wasn’t, and they are definitely not art, they are just tragic examples of lack of judgment as well as lack of skill. And don’t start me on semi-literate tattooed inscriptions with spelling mistakes…
Now re the fattism, tell me, if the fat bloke huffing towards you is a tattooed fat bloke, does that redeem him in your eyes? Does he become a good egg or just a bit less repulsive? How tolerant are you really?
Go get your new tattoos, do what you like, what do you care what anyone thinks anyway? Surely the whole point is that it is a personal choice and personal preference… and you are getting tattoos to make yourself happy, not for their effect on other people, aren’t you?
When I posted this discussion I envisaged a lively imput from those both for & against. I wanted my opinion to be challenged to give me something to ponder. Generally I have not been disappointed as those who have answered telling me I am wrong have generally managed to say so in a polite & intellegent manner. One or two have managed to miss the point when I have stated that it is the tattoo I do not like, not the person who sports it. If I said that I do not like flying I would not expect to be bombarded with angry rants from pilots!
There is no doubt that tattoos can detrimentally affect the actions of wearers. Many of those who decide to have tattoos put them in places where they can be covered. This decision has been taken without reference to me or the opinion I am told I have.
Perhaps a little tour of Google might explain attitudes which many people from all walks of life have about tattoos.
Here is a blog from someone who has done a bit of research on the subject, Professor MARK GRIFFITHS, BSc, PhD, CPsychol, PGDipHE, FBPsS, FRSA.
"Although I have already written a few blogs on extreme tattooing (including one on the television show My Tattoo Addiction), I have to admit that I don’t find excessive tattoos attractive in the slightest. I don’t mind one or two discreetly placed tattoos but women that are covered in them are a complete turn off for me. Most scientific studies that I have read on women’s tattoos tend to show that I am in the majority as seeing them negatively. For instance, a 1991 study carried out by Dr. Myrna Armstrong and published in the Journal of Nursing Scholarship surveyed 137 career women all of who had tattoos. The authors reported that:
“Strong support for the tattoo was expressed by the significant person in the woman’s life and friends, while mild support was perceived from mothers, siblings and children. Respondents cited a lack of, or negative response from their fathers, physicians, registered nurses and the general public. Misunderstanding of what a tattoo means to the individual and stereotyping of women with tattoos continues”.
Dr. Daina Hawkes and her colleagues examined students’ attitudes towards female tattoos in a 2004 study in the journal Sex Roles. They examined both size and visibility of the tattoo. Among the sample, 23% of females and 12% of males were tattooed. The results showed that both men and women had more negative attitudes toward a woman with a visible tattoo than those without. The authors also reported that:
“The size of the tattoo was a predictor of evaluation only for men and women who did not have tattoos themselves. Finally, participants with more conservative gender attitudes evaluated all women more negatively, beyond the effects already accounted for by gender differences”.
In a 2002 issue of Psychological Reports, Dr. Douglas Degelman and Dr. Nicole Price examined what people thought about a photograph of a 24-year-old woman with a black tattoo of a dragon on her left upper arm compared to the same woman without the tattoo. Participants were asked to rate the woman on 13 different personal characteristics and results showed that the compared to the control photograph, the tattooed female was rated as less athletic, less attractive, less motivated, less honest, less generous, less religious, less intelligent, and less artistic. A similar 2005 study using the same technique – also in the journal Psychological Reports – by Dr. John Seiter and Dr. Sarah Hatch, found that a female model with a tattoo was rated as less competent and less sociable than the control photograph of the same woman without a tattoo.
Using a different methodology, Dr. Viren Swami and Dr. Adrian Furnham published a paper in a 2007 issue of the journal Body Image and asked their students to rate social and physical perceptions of blonde and brunette females with different degrees of tattooing. The students were asked to rate how physical attractive and sexual promiscuous the women were as in addition to estimating of the number of alcohol units consumed by the women on a typical night out. The authors reported that:
“Tattooed women were rated as less physically attractive, more sexually promiscuous and heavier drinkers than untattooed women, with more negative ratings with increasing number of tattoos…[Additionally] blonde women in general rated more negatively than brunettes”
This latter study interested Dr. Nicolas Guéguen who has carried out many different studies examining what makes women more attractive. In a 2013 study on the effect that female tattoos have on males published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, he made the following observation about the study by Drs. Swami and Furnham:
“On the one hand, Swami and Furnham’s (2007) results showed that such negative evaluation associated with tattooed women would probably decrease their attractiveness for men. On the other hand, if such women are perceived to be more sexually promiscuous, this could lead men to perceive them as having greater sexual intent. Thus, physical cues that inform them regarding the receptivity of a woman are important. Hence, tattoos could lead male observers to infer that a woman may have greater sexual intent, which, in turn, could lead them to approach such a woman more readily…A survey recently conducted by Guéguen (2012b) showed that tattooed and pierced French women experienced early sexual intercourse. However, the study did not show whether early sexual intercourse can be explained by the fact that women reported interest in both sex and tattoos and piercings or whether women wearing tattoos and piercings experienced more sexual solicitations from men, which, in turn, increased the probability to have sex earlier. Thus, one way of evaluating the mechanism associated with this relation is to test whether men’s behavior changes depending on the presence or absence of a tattoo on a woman’s body”.
As a consequence of these studies and observations, Dr. Guéguen carried out an interesting experimental field study on a French beach and predicted that women with tattoos would be more likely to be approached on the beach by men. To do this, Guéguen placed a temporary tattoo on a woman’s lower back (or not in the control condition), and all the women were asked to read a book while lying flat on their stomach on the beach. Guéguen carried out two experiments and reported:
“The first experiment showed that more men (N = 220) approached the tattooed [women] and that the mean latency of their approach was quicker. A second experiment showed that men (N = 440) estimated to have more chances to have a date and to have sex on the first date with tattooed [women]. However, the level of physical attractiveness attributed to the [woman] was not influenced by the tattoo condition”
Despite the significant results, Dr. Guéguen did note that his studies had a number of limitations. Firstly, the women only had one visible tattoo. The study by Swami and Furnham (outlined above) showed that women were rated as increasingly unattractive the more tattoos they had (i.e., attractiveness was negatively correlated with the number of tattoos). Guéguen also noted that the previous experimental studies involving the visible showing of a single tattoo tended to involve the women’s upper arm. Here, the tattoo was on the woman’s lower back which (according to Guéguen) could have made a difference to the men because it “is near the genital area of female bodies”. Dr. Guéguen also went on to note that:
“It would be worth testing whether a tattoo exerts the same sexual attractiveness effect regardless of the body area where it appears. Only one tattoo design was tested in our two experiments, and it would also be worth testing various designs and the height of the surface area occupied by the tattoo. Furthermore, only attractive women confederates participated in these two studies, and researchers might elect to test the effect of tattoos depending on various levels of female attractiveness. Another issue is that the women confederates were not informed about the real objective of the study and previous research on this topic. However, they may have unconsciously behaved differently when wearing a tattoo, which, in turn, influenced the men’s behavior”.
There are clearly many different avenues that research in this area can go. However, this is one area where public perception may significantly change over time (now that tattoos are in the cultural mainstream). Although my own views on tattoos are unlikely to change, that doesn’t mean others won’t."
Hi I cannot understand how this topic came up as you do not find the type of people that Mark reversers to around where he lives, I am a person with many tattoos and do not regret anyone of them and at 62 years of age still having them done. I am retired after many years being a senior local government officer which none of my tattoos stood in my way and only gained respect
, since moving to France I have found the brits are judgmental and should get a life and hang up there anoraks. They sit endlessly by the computer spilling out comments or wasting peoples time when they do not turn up why buying various things on dvn and angloinfo. I was am amazed even the bible was stated in this topic as the church needs to sort themselves out as they are one of the biggest problems with killing innocent people that derives from religion.
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John & Vicki MarshJohn_Vicki_Marsh
5m
Christian_Mauve
Hi I cannot understand how this topic came up as you do not find the type of people that you refer to around where you live, I am a person with many tattoos as you know and do not regret anyone of them and at 62 years of age still having them done. I am retired after many years being a senior local government officer which none of my tattoos stood in my way and only gained respect.
Since moving to France I have found the Brits are judgmental and should get a life and hang up there anoraks. They sit endlessly by the computer spilling out comments or wasting peoples time when they do not turn up why buying various things on dvn and Angloinfo. I was am amazed even the bible was stated in this topic as the church needs to sort themselves out as they are one of the biggest problems with killing innocent people that derives from religion.
John, SFN enables members to interact with each other amongst its other benefits. General discussions are exactly that. Members can join in or not as the fancy takes them. The reason I put the topic up is because it came up on the TV recently with some presenters for & some against.
I have been honest & have said that I do not like them. I would not have one & I hoped I had made it clear that the reason that I would not is due because of the way many people perceive the image it can convey. My last post here contains extracts from research conducted by professional people & the conclusion is that showing body art can indeed affect the way people are viewed. I do not want to think that I could be giving out that impression. My choice, right?
Why some others here have decided to interpret that into “Mark hates PEOPLE with tattoos” is something I fail to understand. Perhaps they are being deliberately obtuse. Google this - effect of tattoos on perceptions of credibility and attractiveness - to read the results of research.
You are one of these “judgemental brits” yourself, telling people that they should not use their spare time to discuss things with others (while doing it yourself) & should “get a life”. Emailing is the new talking. I spend much of my day repairing cars in my workshop. I work alone with a radio & my dog for company. My OH teaches abroad. The opportunity to discuss odd topics is therefore somewhat limited. I enjoy a good debate with intellegent people whether by voice or written word. Rather than sitting in front of a computer I could be sitting in front of a coffee in a bar - still idling away a few minutes in idle chat.
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Hi John and Vicki (I don’t know who answered). There was no offence in my answer even if quoting the Bible (not the Church) seems to be like waving a red flag to some. My answers was in two parts: 1/ I said that being tattooed can be understood (at lest I do) as the other side of the Body cult we see everywhere. A kind of rebellious reaction to the beauty imperative. 2. I wrote that personnaly I would not be tattooed nor would I have cosmetic surgery because I have a certain respect for the body I was given. After all, Mark’s question was : do you like Tattoos ? My answer was No. Yours is Yes, Fine ! Instead of charging the convenient red flag of religion, why don’t you tell why you like being tattooed or what was your motivation for doing that ? That would be an interesting contribution.
Christian
Perhaps this is a kind of time-out, from NON JUDGEMENT…as entertainment…David Martin?..Mark has made it clear that he is willing to take part in a mutual judgement session, and I guess will welcome all comments that …do unto him, as he enjoys doing …unto others? Is that so Mark? Or do you reserve the right to judge others, only for yourself?
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The wonderful thing about ART… is…that everyone may have his or her own definition.
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I think that is fair, Jeanette. The thing is, who have I actually judged? There is no doubt that there are a large number of people who think that tattoos still have negative connotations. This may be old fashioned but it does persist in both young & old. When I talked about associating them with dockers & such, one has to remember that when I was at tattoo age they were taboo - like many, my association came more from the media than from personal experience.
Extract from the Huffington Post:-
"Tattoos have certainly been scrutinized in the past and a visible feature that was once taboo has now become… normal?
Twenty five years ago, tattoos were actually quite common… on sailors, prison inmates, and members of tough motorcycle gangs. If you looked at accountants, pro ping-pong players, or shoe salesmen though, it would have been pretty rare to find some ink." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mik-thobocarlsen/how-tattoos-went-from-sub_b_6053588.html)
I did not want that view to be attributed to me (plus the fact that some of them were very poor quality & the designs limited). That did not stop some of my friends, though, who would proudly show their new tattoo, often purchased while under the influence of a bevy or two. Guess what? They still remained my friends even though they now had a tat!
Old attitudes are hard to change & although tattoos have come out of the unhygienic side street shops to a regulated, clean & skilled profession there are still people who do not like them.
Take a look at this from http://www.vanishingtattoo.com
ATTITUDES OF THOSE WITHOUT A TATTOO - TREND
"Please complete the following sentence: ‘Compared to people without tattoos, I think people with tattoos are…?’"
Base: All Without Tattoos
More Less
2003 2008 2012 2003 2008 2012
Rebellious % 57 54 50 2 3 4
Strong % 8 8 8 8 10 10
Sexy % 8 6 5 36 39 39
Athletic % 4 5 5 14 13 13
Spiritual % 3 5 4 29 25 25
Attractive % 4 4 4 42 47 45
Intelligent % * 1 2 31 27 27
Healthy % 1 2 1 21 25 25
Note: Percentages may not add to 100 due to rounding; * indicates less than .05%
On a personal level my choice not to like tattoos does not extend to a dislike of those who have them - it never has! I do admit to being wary of strangers with tattoos but wary does not equal dislike. Those who know me personally would have to admit that I have always treated them with utmost respect & courtesy whether they have a tattoo or not. The fact that some have now decided that they don’t have to do the same for me is somewhat disappointing. We all like different things & I certainly don’t expect my friends to like everything I do.
Finally, this judgement thing. We all do it! All the time. Some say clothes maketh the man (I’m usually scruffy). Others look at shoes. Or watches, cars, table manners. We dress up to go out, why? When we were young we soon learnt to look presentable to help in finding a mate, knowing that we were being appraised by potential partners. We wash & put on smells for the benefit of others (although I enjoy a good shower) because if we did not have to impress others why bother?
If you think I am wrong feel free to correct me. Offer an opposite view! Slagging me off does absolutly nothing to make me rethink my point.