Wow! Veronique I'd kill to have B2s and C1s. They would be extreeeemely rare at my uni. Guess they've all been siphoned off by the Grandes Ecoles. I've already given them rockets but they don't care and I doubt the admin cares either. They only had one lesson per month which was pedagogically useless.
Oh possibly they have, I'm not sure at what stage they do what now - I did the capes years after doing my MAs & having a completely different sort of career. That's shameful, if my Terminales were that bad I'd be rocketing them, any complete idiot can get A2 (= 10 in the new all-must-have-prizes Bac) without any huge effort just with a tiny bit of nous and good will - my T°s are at B2/C1 & in some cases a clear C1 overall. (These are LVA not LVO though) & none of them is planning on doing the capes. I'm not by any means in an élite school, I'm in a smallish rural lycée where a HUGE proportion of pupils come from deprived homes but we know them well and cajole & whip them as & when we have to ;-)
But haven't they already done the concours at the end of M1? The M2s are already fonctionnaires stagiaires.
Your comments are interesting. I'm clearly being exposed to the worst France has to offer. Would love to see the other half for a change.
HA they won't get through their M2 let alone the concours: if their English is that bad they must be lazy or stupid, they won't be teaching anyone. There is a very high drop-out & failure rate for the capes (in terms of total candidates vs successful candidates)
No, A2 really??? That is the level I expect at the end of 5ème (11/12 years old) and it is the MINIMUM level they are expected to have reached by 3ème (they need it to validate the brevet, they are meant to be at b1 by 3ème).
They aren't ever left alone in a classroom, quite apart from anything else if they are they'll spend all their time doing something unsuitable on the classroom computer. They HAVE to have a pion there - that's why they don't sit in a classroom, they are in étude or the CDI or (this has happened to me) they ask to come into another class - so I tell the vie scolaire I have an extra one or two & all is OK.
I don't have the right to sit CAPES Veronique. I'm not a French national. I'm so frustrated I am blocked at every turn when all I want to do is help France.
Anglicists? Choke, with levels of AO, A1 or at best A2? And the system lets them teach English? Is it any wonder I feel like screaming about the system?
I don't know of any schools in my département or residence OR my département of work which aren't equipped - all my lycée classes are, acc to my children collège is equipped... but we aren't in the ring around Paris which is well-known for being by and large a hell-hole (we have our own problems in the sticks)
Drat I edited & it hasn't taken the edits into account - go ahead & try the capes, it doesn't cost anything, if you're teaching for it (I suppose the ESPE farm it out) & have the anglicists you'll be doing linguistics lit/history/civilisation etc etc etc so no prob for you - I did the capes without any preparation at all as too busy with work & family but I still came in the top 10 nationally so it is doable!
Not brave, just all I can get as a non-EU. The bravery is more in the surviving, lol.
Yes I get that. The teachers do not leave their classes unsupervised. And I believe once the parents sign that their child can leave the school premises during breaks the school is then off the hook since they have the permission of the parents. So in that case no matter what the student does when he/she has left the premises should not be the fault of the school. I just don't see how the student can be put in a room unsupervised when teachers are absent. It would seem to me they need to have a "surveillant" at least. Sending students to the CDI would be OK since I assume there is a librarian etc there.
The mainstream TV news said it was the first high school to be equipped with computers and I couldn't believe that was newsworthy. My teacher trainees tell me there is no internet and no computers in primary schools. They tell me they may be lucky to have a video projector. They refused to spend any of their own money on transferring a video assignment to a CD (I was gobsmacked). Apparently the cost of a blank CD is too high for them though they are getting paid the same as me.
Admin wanted me to give them a 3-hour lesson on using technology in the classroom. They spent the whole time complaining, paying no attention in class, finding excuses and obstacles as to why they couldn't use any technology in schools, including their smart phones and certainly didn't want to have any clear lines of communication with parents because they didn't want to bothered with messages from parents. I just couldn't believe it all. They want to just teach as they were taught and I told them they owed it to their students to give them the best experiences to help kids learn in this modern world.
I came into this with no pre-conceived ideas - I think the students have taught me more than I've taught them but it's a sad and rather negative outcome. I sent a report to admin on my concerns for the structure of the course and quality of the students and said I'd like to visit a school to see how things work there but received no response at all. Does anyone care? I feel I'm the only one who does yet I was so excited I would have a chance to impart my ideas and experience. A waste of time. Reading about others' experiences with absences just adds to my sadness about the state of things here.
We don't go to the loo during class, we don't leave pupils at all during class, if a pupils has to leave a class the delegates go with him/her - but what do you imagine they do at breaks? They go in & out of school with parental permission if they need it, & smoke or go to the kebab shop if they don't fancy lunch. Then they usually have a really good snog somewhere nice & private like the wide pavement-like steps in front of school (general congregation point) & possible another cigarette & a cup of coffee before class. Quite a few of my pupils are legally adults but most aren't.
"France was going cocorico recently because they actually had a school now with computers in it." But Frances, ALL schools have TICE whether in every single class or not - no the comment about size was because (cf Finland) you can do different things with scale, I'm not dissing NZ !! What are average class sizes in the last 2 years of school in NZ ? (1° & T) equivalent, I mean) it's rather like comparing Scotland & England - until the 19th Century Scotland had a tiny population compared to England's - less than 10% - but still had twice as many universities...
I'm delighted the reforms suit your child: mine, however, is losing her Classics (Latin AND Greek!) and also her Spanish International section so you'll forgive me please for being less sanguine about it. They are to be replaced with a bit of as-yet-undefined cross-curricular touchy-feeliness. Speaking entirely for myself, I think the sooner (within reason) you learn to work independently without expecting it to be all-singing all-dancing, the better you will do in higher education but obviously it depends on what age-group you are talking about.
I was educated in the UK (school in Scotland, then Cambridge) & have taught in England as well - I think both systems can be outstanding at their best but they both have glaring flaws. They are very very different and can't be compared on a like for like basis.
What subjects did you teach?
I'm teaching English at the Uni of Versailles. Ever read 'Sorbonne Confidential'? all about the capes. Clearly I'd never pass it despite being a well experienced and qualified teacher.In terms of size of country - ever considered how a small country can fund and maintain the same sort of infrastructure as a large population with a large tax base does? The systems are different and are not based on the size of NZ. They have their problems, mostly because of political ideologies at central government but all schools have internet and most have computers and teachers using all current mainstream technologies including careful use of social media and online teaching platforms in their classrooms. Much of that is thanks to schools' actions and not necessarily the government but teachers go all the way to ensure their students can compete with the rest of the world. France was going cocorico recently because they actually had a school now with computers in it.
You took the word right out of my mouth regarding how teaching is done. A whole new slant on this conversation I might add. Obviously we are not in the class to judge, but I hear from so many students that are talked AT, given paperwork to look at and fathem it out for themselves, which is why I take an interest at home with my daughter and her homework. We work at home together and we both ask questions. She is even doing better that some of the French children at school with her moyennes. It seems that the teachers do not engage with their pupils. Can't speak for all schools and all teachers but this seems to be my overall experience, although there are one or two that break this mold. It sometimes seems that the attitude is, well I was taught this way, so I will teach this way. Kids who are engaged and interact with the teacher and other kids seems to understand subjects better and retain the info I feel.
I understand what you mean about teaching a subject and looking after students is not your primary responsibility but I am surprised that the school would allow the students to be in an unsupervised situation at any time during the time they are supposed to be at school. I would think that the administration would be required at least to have a supervisor for the students when they are not with the teacher. Violence and other incidents can happen at any age, and in my experience the danger is sometimes worse with older students. Even if parents feel comfortable with leaving their child unsupervised at home, I would think that the school cannot afford to make that decision for all the students and it would seem that would leave the school in legal difficulties in case of a problem. When I was teaching in the US I wouldn't dare even to go to the toilet without getting someone to cover my class. If anything happened during my absence I would have been at fault because the students should never be unsupervised.
We are not in loco parentis because our job is teaching a subject not looking after children and we are legally PERSONALLY responsible for them (but not 'in loco parentis') while we have them in our classroom, or if we are taking them somewhere, during a trip, that's all. They are admin's responsibility otherwise. Obviously we have the same attitude any responsible adult will have vis-à-vis any minor depending on context etc but that's it. We are absolutely not in loco parentis. Of course I don't know what age of child you're thinking about, my pupils would find it VERY weird if their parents thought they couldn't be left at home alone for anything up to a couple of weeks ;-) .
Just joining in this discussion as I too am tearing my hair out about the absences at our son's college, I started in September to keep a record of how many periods of 'permanence' he had due to staff absence. It is incredible! However, reading everyone's comments it is enlightening to see that it is a national problem.
My husband and I are both teachers who have taught in the UK and internationally, and of course we have the experience of always having to have work set, in advance of the school day if you are ill. If there is a serious issue and you can't do that then the Head of Department takes over. The children were never told to 'revise' or go over their notes or sit in a room full of 50 children in silence. Like Clare, we live not far from school and we work from home, so we go and 'spring' our son out of the gloom.
With regard to the College reforms being dumbed down, we have to disagree. My husband was a head teacher in the UK where they introduced the RSA Opening Minds curriculum to the Year 7 & 8 students and it transformed the school. It will be similar to the reforms here in France in that it will encourage children to ask questions, be inquisitive and take risks, and god forbid 'Have Fun!' Something our son certainly doesn't have much of at his college. The whole system seems to be: Learn this sheet verbatim and regurgitate it back to me next week..... No, he has rarely achieved 20 out of 20 (except English :) !) but we now really don't care that he isn't a robot. When we test him at home about a particular topic i.e. House Insulation he knows it back to front, particularly as he has seen acres of the stuff being put into our house, he could tell you in detail how to renovate a house and what materials to use and why. BUT come to the test day he fails miserably, because he can't remember the EXACT words the teacher wants him to write.
So if these reforms are going to actually set the children free from sitting and being taught at, then we can't wait!
Phew, that's the end of my rant - out to attack a leylandii hedge :)
Agreed Veronique. You have exactly the same attitude to me regarding my daughter saying she has no work to do. As I say I am one of the lucky parents who can bring there child home and get them to study in the quiet of the house and if she has nothing i find a lesson of the internet. I know what you are all saying 'cruel mummy' LOL! Sad that the admin lets the whole thing down though.