Well put.
There is, of course, an element of truth in what Jeanette has posted ; thereâs an immense inequality in the world, & I imagine that for many, the âworriesâ concerning the ownership of a 2nd, 3rd, maybe 4th property will never become reality. Myself, I fall into the âpoorâ category if the above statistics in Janeâs post are the case ; & I do whatever necessary to keep my (once paid for, & now remortgaged) roof over my head.
Black & white?
No grey scale?
Hmmm
I definitely read somewhere that being rich is having enough for your needs. I fall into that category. 
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Yes, absolute poverty is being deprived of basic human needs: fresh water, sanitation, having a BMI below 16, education, health care - those sorts of things. So I feel immensely lucky and privileged. Relative poverty is more about your place in your society.
And Paul, I do think this is something that is quite cut and dried as you either have enough or you donât. If you have enough for your needs, and more than 60% of your fellow citizens, then I think youâre doing pretty well and are rich. Perhaps it gets more murky the higher you goâŚprecariously rich, comfortably rich, filthy rich, stinking rich, luxuriatingly rich, generously rich.
Well, I need a yacht, clearly but do not have enough money - does that make me poor?
in case it wasnât obvious
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something to ponder on
before buying - 4 questions
Do I want it? (YES)
Can I afford it? (Yes or No or mmm)
Do I absolutely need it ? (YesâŚmmmaybe ???)
Can I possibly do without it? ( Yes⌠mmmaybe ???)
Today Iâve eaten lunch sat in a beautiful square outside a magnificent Chateau and afterwards I returned home and had a swim.
So by definition rich and also lucky.
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Hi, one and all.
My first post on SF.
I thought I would share my personal experience of owning a home in France and feelings around this topic. We bought the house in Brittany in Nov 2011, we being my then wife and I.
I took my pension to buy the house (yep, crazy I know). It was the dream of owning a home outright and also the lifestyle that France offered, fast forward 8 years, Iâm divorced, renovated about 60% of the house, brought my ex out of the house in Brittany, no UK house to call mine. Currently living with a lady in Norfolk. My dream is still to finish renovating the house and go live there. But, as my partner reminds me so often, âit isnât her dreamâ
So we live between Norfolk and Brittany for a few months at a time.
The house is in a hamlet of 4 houses, up until 9 months ago none of them were occupied full time, one was owned by an old Parisian couple, another owned by a Bretagne native who is now living with his new wife in Le Havre. The final house is a derelict farm house, owned by a forestry/ farming family with several other derelict farm houses dotted about the area.
When we brought the house it had lain empty for 4 yrs, the family selling the house after their Mother had passed away. The house was habitable, (French standards) but it was going to be our home as we planned to relocate to France permanently after we had it renovated.
Not sure where Iâm going with this, did I deprive a local from buying it? Well judging by the amount of empty homes scattered around the area for sale, Iâd say not. The family we brought from was 6 people, none of them seem to want it for their kids, perhaps they did not have the money? Iâm often surprised at the French attitude to home ownership. They donât seem to worry like the Brits do, this past trip we was invited to look round our new neighbours house (ex Parisian) he has lived there for ~9 months. He has it looking ok, nothing fancy, its habitable. We invited him and the neighbour up for a âsoireeâ one evening before we returned, the first time the whole hamlet was gathered together, so the wine/beer flowed, a French/English dictionary on the table, some dodgy French from our side, our other neighbour (Le Havre) speaks some English. I feel as welcome there as I do in the UK, if not more so. But, we get by, I believe a lot of people around there have lower aspirations, which is ok, (my outlook on life) Iâve spent too much of my life chasing the extra buck for some non existent lifestyle (cars,holidays etc). Iâm quite happy with a roof over my head, some food in my belly and a few bob behind me.
My few pennyâs worthâŚ.
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Sounds like youâve got it sorted Michael.
The last two lines ring a particular bell with me.
Welcome btw.
Many thanks Bob, Iâve often read some of your comments/replyâs and they ring true with me too
Michael . sorry about the wreck of the dream, and to anyone interested,
your question I forgot to answer⌠âDid you deprive a local?â⌠(and, did I?)
Does anyone?
One way I think about it, is that people without capital, without experience, will have much less opportunity, far fewer resources, than most roaming Brits. So yes, in one sense, people who arrive on any territory with enough money to consider buying a home, where laws govern land and property access/development/ etc, and where incentives? education? to âlocalâ others is not available, then certainly, many French people must be losing opportunities who might otherwise take them. Whether or not the âlocalsâ had no interest in the property, someone else, might have.
I want to understand, and compare the differences between property/real estate markets in France and UK, because I donât want any part at allâŚin the kind of money raking power struggles, that give comfort and freedom to very few, and massive debts and hardship, to millions, I donât want any kind of share at all, in the profit making influences that condone big speculation so that a tiny minority of people can fight over little bits of London, and all UK except the poorest and most deprived and push prices so high that you need be a millionaire to live there.
When I was living in London last, associates of the, then Ayatollah, bought out the block where I was caretaker and hoped to get ideas from me, about how to make life a misery for the tenants on fixed rents.
I was far too scared to tell them âfuck offâ. Decades after Rachman.
One of their chauffeurs was shot dead in Paris then, so the whole place began to lose any âhome comfortâ feel, for me.
NO, I have no interest or faith in duff economic theories of âtrickle downâ or golden/invisible hands âŚnot of any part of capitalist, unregulated markets especially of the ever diminishing bits of planet, being looted right now, thereâs a limited amount available.
Laws are different, concerning âpropertyâ, in France. Iâm aware of that and the " effects" such differences produce. But I do not know exactly what those differences are. I know that most UK land and property is owned by a very few people and corporations.
The cultures are very different, an article in the Guardian goes some way in expressing those differences, without showing any understanding of how dangerous it can be to give a free hand, to any market, especially of âvital to lifeâ property, when essential supplies must eventually run out.
Itâs something that often strikes me about the way Brits go about deciding where to live. The priority seems to be all about finding the right house, turning it into a showpiece, and the lifestyle to match will come with it.
I have to say that my home is not a showpiece, I simply donât have the time or the energy to turn it into one. It has charm and character and I love it to bits but essentially, itâs not the most important thing in my life. Itâs somewhere to base my life, and its function is to be a where I can work comfortably, in an area where there are things going on locally that interest me, and well situated for getting to other parts of France, etc. Buying a house was not an end in itself, beyond that I needed somewhere to base my life, and to be frank I could have bought or rented one of dozens of properties and it wouldnât have massively enhanced, detracted from or otherwise changed my life.
I have known Brits whoâve moved here and spent years renovating, then once they have their house just as they want it, they seem lost because that was their main interest in life, they donât actually have much interest in anything outside their own front gate. Itâs like theyâve achieved their dream and they donât know what to do next.
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HI Jeanette,
People in the UK buy property because it is generally a good idea to do so. Its not irresponsible to invest in your future. Why pay rent rent for 45 years when you can pay a mortgage for 25 and never pay again.
My dad bought his first home for ÂŁ3000, I bought mine for ÂŁ61000 . It was a struggle but its paid off. I am debt free and buying a french pad to enjoy the sun. My dad had secured his retirement by downsizing his family home. fair play to him.
The thing is⌠some people enjoy the prestige of a big home, of a top job. They increase their mortgage each time they move incurring more and more debtâŚbut you donât have to. And thatâs OK too. Its only a problem when you get made redundant or become sick and canât work.
We are talking about a home here, a place to live in, not a pension pot or share fund.
If a Brit in France wants to improve his house, that OK (its what we like to do) and its got nothing to do with risk taking or property speculation on the whole. Its just a security thing I suspect, and having security is a good thing in my view. Its down to what the individual wants and needs and I suspect generalising isnât terribly accurate
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! Wonderful! I like having replies to think about, while I work! Thank you.
Anna, my permanently gloomy view of it, so far, is that one upmanship, the classic âI look up to himâ scenario created by the Two Ronnies, is still rampant in UK, so that a persons worth, his value as a human being, is still often measured by his house, and its location, location, location?
Its a sure way to feel safe as a Brit, to claim a chunk of the island âas oneâs ownâ, according to the examples set by British Hero Royals?
Iâm appalled and embarrassed by it, although Iâm prepared to accept, âin errorâ if anyone can demonstrate why.
I did the whole uk thing, from start to finish, sold my art soul, to pay the mortgage, imagined myself a house owner, etc etc.
Without understanding any of it.
Iâm glad to say that one of the many âcollapsesâ of property values, along with the shut down of half the galleries in USA, came along to remind me what a whole âlifetimeâ of debt must feel like. So I came to France. A gentler kinder way of life.
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Although it featured Ronnies Corbett and Barker (as well as John Cleese) it was not âThe Two Ronniesâ - it was on The Frost Report and written by Marty Feldman and John Law.
Good sketch though 
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There are people, both french people in france and english people in the uk, where that is totally true. We have friends of both nationalities and both sides of the channel who house hop. They buy something, do it up, and immediately get bored and start again as what they like in life are projects and learning new skills. Perhaps less common among the french, but it exists. Our daughter, aged only 30âish, has now been through four renovations, and has now decided to self build a house. Nothing to do with property development, and all to do with creating something.
And personally as a retired person, I prefer hanging around at builders merchants and debating insulation than playing golf which I would see as a waste of time when I could be creating something physical insteadâŚand Iâm rubbish at art or sewing.
Hi Jeanette,
Ok, my thoughts and experiences, same may see this as a cynical view
I lived all my child life in social housing, my parents lived a very stormy (violent) relationship, I grew up constantly waiting to be without a roof over my head, this manifested itself in me wanting a secure roof over my head, one that no bâstrd could take away.
Iâve lived in tied accommodation (70âs-80âs) for quite a few years and all that entailed threats of losing job/house, until Labour introduced the Rent Agricultural Act 1976.
I personally believe that house ownership took on a new meaning in the 80âs, when Thatcher came to power she opened the door to the average working man/woman to own their own home, this came about under the âright to buyâ scheme. Prior to that most people lived in social housing, rents were reasonable, I also believe people were fairly happy with their lot. House ownership was for the middle/upper classes. But, I believe Thatcher had an ulterior motive to smash the trade unions by having the working class own their houses (with mortgages) If you went on strike and you were in social housing, you still might be able to afford the rent if the other half (wife) worked, or you could get into rent arrears, you would be unlikely to get evicted. But, with a mortgage the banks/building societies wanted their money, so people were less likely to go on strike, I believe thatâs one of the reasons for the unions not having the membership they once did. People get frightened of their own shadows, they get bullied and harassed at work, but they wonât speak up, for fear of losing their jobs and potentially their homes.
I also believe that now the average working class guy in the UK has become obsessed with what their house is worth and also made a lot of them very smug. House prices have risen at alarming rates of inflation, you cannot save for a house at the rate they are increasing in value, unless your salaries are equally eye watering . But for those on the house ladder itâs all relative, everyone is in the same boat as all house prices have risen, so unless you sell up and move away (cheaper area) or downsize, you never see the value of the house. I feel sorry for younger families trying to get started, deposits have to be sizable, (probably would buy a house in Brittany) they are also saddled with a debt that will take up 50 yrs to repay. In my case after the divorce & selling the UK marital home there wasnât enough for either of us to buy a house with the equity, due to my age I couldnât get a new solo mortgage either. Thatâs why I decided to buy my ex out of the house in Brittany.
In the UK when you buy a house the expectation is for it to rise in value, I can remember a few times when we had property price crashes and people were in negative equity, I know of people who walked away from their houses and handed the keys back to their lenders, some of them were then hounded for what was owed after the house was sold on. Ok you could argue that they over extended themselves so they shot their selves in the foot.
Of course with the rising house inflation you have the same problem with rental property, the price of renting privately in the UK is getting out of reach of a lot of people. With hardly any social housing being available it makes long term rental prohibitively expensive long term.
I could go on, not sure Iâve answered your question, but I feel Iâve vented enoughâŚâŚ
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Just came across this article on BBC News, makes interesting reading⌠https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/iZKMPd0wjP/council_housing