Integrating in the French community seems to have come up a lot recently, both on SFN and in conversations I've had locally.
I'm really interested to hear if people really are becoming part of the French community, especially if their French isn't as good as it could be.
I'm in the Haute Savoie and the Expat community is now quite sizeable, English friends mention that the local French are not welcoming and that they find it difficult to integrate. This isn't surprising when you can't speak the language properly, I'm one of these people; my French is way below fluent so how can I expect to be best buddies with locals when they don't get to know the real
me? I feel bad about my level of French considering how long I've lived here; I come up with all kinds of excuses but none are truly valid!
(I'm actually in the process of starting an online french lesson business due to this feeling).
I also wonder if the instinct to socialise with people who speak the same language exaggerates this more so?
I think that for a lot of people including me there is a fear factor involved.
Perhaps another reason why it's hard to truly integrate is that many of us have moved from urban areas and very busy lives into very rural areas where our neighbors have had very different life experiences and have different expectations from life, I'm not sure if this is true across France but I think it does have an impact where I am.
Andrew, I only was in Aveyrone my first year--but it's beautiful there--I'd love to return just on vacation. We now live close to my husband's family in Les Hautes-Alpes: 05.
Yes some very thought provoking points you raise. We are just about to start (rather than dream about) our life in France so this is particularly pertinent. I have often listed the "integration" factor highly in my reasons for wanting to live in France so we shall put this to the test!
From where I am now, the elements involved will be Language, Culture and Courage. I don't think there is any order here, if there is it needs to be dynamic. People need all three and practice these for real with the French. If I wait until my French is good enough well that could be many years, as could my cultural knowledge.
So jumping in at the deep end, trusting to courage mainly, armed with some French language and perhaps less cultural knowledge is our strategy. In that way our language and cultural knowledge will grow the quickest (we hope).
This is quite an all pervasive topic! My wife told me yesterday that the "man bag" I use in the UK will be altogether more accepted in France and that was before either of us saw your posting. My response to her (after a raised eyebrow) was of course "Vive la difference".
So I go armed with that attitude in everything French related. I hope the French can grow to like us after putting up with many a clumsy attempt on our part at the language and no doubt some cultural transgressions before we can achieve a level of integration (not isolation) that we want.
Interesting post. I think that I live in France because the French are so welcoming. At first I just wanted to come for a school year and be an English assistant to improve my French. I ended up in a small town and people kind of adopted me--there were no other English-speakers here. Even in Aveyrone where a lot of people were angry with Americans at the time, I was treated really kindly--with an occasional political lecture, but what can you do? Americans get that anywhere we go, ah. . .probably for good reason.
I met my husband while working here and I have always felt like being a foreigner makes it easier to meet people! And people remember you. I have a little group of 'foreign' mom friends, other immigrants to France. But none of them are English-speaking. And I have plenty of plain old French friends.
I have to admit, I don't volunteer as much as I should because I'm so busy. But in the early days when I didn't have kids and didn't know anyone, I volunteered, signed up for associations and cultural activities and was always available for acquaintances who wanted to practice their English.
I know very few British people and do not have much to do with most of them. My companion is French and thus most of the people I socialize with are French also. I do not make any effort to 'integrate', I just do my own thing in the same way that I did in Scotland for twenty years. I made no special effort to ingratiate myself to the locals, I simply got on with life and was accepted by everyone. I found that it was the English who forced themselves onto the parish council and tried to change things who were the ones who were resented. The people who accepted that the way of doing things in the Highlands was substantially different to the English way of doing things were the people who had no trouble. It took me about five years before I started to feel part of the community and I had no problem with that; it was a case of easing in without creating waves and upsetting people whilst shewing that one had something to offer the community. I think people expect too much too quickly. Interestingly enough, though I miss Scotland for various reasons, I find myself culturally more at home in France than in the Highlands.
Patricia, I too thought it might be a good way to integrate- getting involved in the community so I met the mayor and offered to volunteer my diverse skills. She seemed enthusiastic but then said first you must find the right job or you'll be out of the country. Later I did find a short term 1-2 years job and sent her an email to say here I am, when can I start. There has been no response at all and there is no welcoming commitee in my town. In fact I offered to start one. My French boyfriend says I won't really be welcome to do anything because that would stir things up and someone else would have to do something involving me so they'll stay status quo. I hope that's not the case. I'll have to march down in person with a copy of my emails and ask for a response. They are certainly not falling over themselves for my business/tourism, language etc help.
I moved to France speaking very little French but I got to know the locals right away and now my French is rather good and I know all the local slang too which helps immensely! Lol.
I speak to English people but rarely. In England I would probably never give them a second glance and it is usually only because there are other English speaking people that people tend to stay close to them, but I have moved to France so why would I want to just spend time with just the English people....
I attend most of the local events in my community and help out as often as I can and I love to go to lots of bars and meet new French people and I now have a wide range of French friends :-)
I have never found the local French to not be welcoming, on the contrary, I find a lot of the English people very rude here and not even attempting to speak basic French when ordering food and drinks for etc.
I spent around 3-5 hours a day learning French for 4 days a week and used as many new phrases that I could when conversing with the local French people. most of the time they would praise me for my French even if it was not 100%, they do not care, as long as you try then they accept you (or so I have found) and they can help you too.
I know my life is different here in France compared to when I lived in Leicester and if my neighbours were to go to Leicester or any other major city I am sure that they would be terrified and have no idea what to do. They never go on holiday and are happy to live and work of their land just as I myself am. I moved here to grow my own food and live off the land and to get away from the city life as I found it then and even more so now overpowering and I get home sick for France (my home now) every time I go to England which is why now I rarely go to England and if I do maybe only for 4 days at a time.
I too want to apply for dual nationality and I too think of myself as European.
I went regularly to the local bar and met with several locals. We were invited to join the local Comite de Fetes. We acted as waiters/waitresses, sales people selling souvenirs, raffle tickets and advertising space, kitchen assistants, bar persons, cleaners, accountants, interpreters, master of ceremonies and general dogsbodies. Yes we did speak French from a previous stay here but boy, did we integrate. Today I am no longer physically able to perform these tasks but we did enjoy ourselves.
oops, sorry, keep adding new bits... I think of myself as European and wish the European governments could sort out some sort of European pension scheme rather than all the little bits I have from working in different countries...
I work in an international school, run by French Education Nationale, and the kids we work with are pretty much 50/50 Anglophone/Francophone. I'm resident in France, pay my taxes in France, have a carte vitale, drive a french car, own a house in a french village, speak passable french, my kids have gone through the French primaries and on to the International School where I work... their friends are pretty mixed Francophone/Anglophone. I'm not registered to vote.
Learning French.... Is it perhaps time for the expat community to invest in a French language program that will bebefit all those whose French langauge skills are inadequate? In my opinion it can't be that difficult to find "Français langue seconde" teachers with sufficient computer skills to exploit the opportunities that such interactve tools such as, for example, Skype offer to anyone who wishes to upgrade his French language skills. Adrian
@Vic, because of the opinion of the advice I received from the UK Electoral Commission that the French authorities may make the connection between my voting in the UK when I am still registered to vote in the European elections in France. She obviously had more faith in French efficiency than myself.
@ David if you are registered to vote in your last constituency in both National and European elections you Cavan choose to be represented by a British MEP.
@David, I am in the process of de-registering for the European elections here in France.
Because we are UK citizens, we are protected by EU law as well as French law and that proved invaluable to me when I was discriminated against by the French health authorities.
Without the help of my UK MEP it would have been so much more difficult to reach the correct decision in, not only my favour, but for all UK retirees living in France.
Having spoken to French friends, they have had precious response from their elected representatives to Brussels.
The title of this post is integrating, but there will always be differences between us and the native inhabitants, for instance for retirees our pensions and health care are paid by the UK government.
Some of the EU laws are there to help integration between the countries of the EU, but we have all heard stories of the French authorities not applying regulations correctly and we need to have some means of redress, which will come from using your UK MEP.
We will retain our vote for the local Mairie.
From my point of view it is all about finding like-minded people. My rule is...if you wouldn't have them as friends in your own language, then why bother with them JUST because they are French?
Truly integrating is tough without the language, but some of my friends joined the local choir or walking club and pushed themselves into a french speaking environment. Husband and I went to Salsa classes...now THAT was scary! Find something you like doing and then find some people who like doing it too!!
(btw I was told yesterday by a french friend that he loved my accent and found the mistakes I make when speaking to him 'charming'...so just keeping blurting it out, it works for me!)
Mike is right. If neighbours need a hand and I can, they know they can ask me, so I occasionally feed people's cats, walk the dog and pop in to people for a quick tisane or whatever. Since I have got to know the hunters I can sometimes go out with them. We have an agreement with two farms for cutting hay in our field, whoever gets here first has it. Neither resents the other but we can still get our 'manure' from either or both.
We know a few people from the UK, my OH especially through work but in general our social environment was constructed by being parents of young children and through their friendships we entered particular social circles. In the UK people mocked my OH's Italian accent; when she was a senior lecturer in a university there were students who used the excuse 'don't understand her' for rubbish essays. Here people are only curious about where from and what her accent is. In fact, it is only the occasional English person house seeking who complains and says they want somebody who speaks proper English.
Since my health has been dodgy neighbours have offered to look after our daughters if necessary and have done it a couple of times. When they know I am alone at home they look in to see if I am OK, as with Mike the farmers wave when they go past on their tractors, stop sometimes to say hello. We are invited to every possible event or community dinner, etc and I often have requests to wear my kilt to them. No, not a joke about a bloke in a frock, but they kind of show me off to 'outsiders'. There is a long way to go still, but we are comfortable.
The crowning bit for me was last week when a neighbour who has broken a leg, all but forced me to ride one of his horses out. He had spoken to the instructor where my daughter has lessons who told me I didn't need two arms to ride but got me mounting steps to get up on a biggish pony. The instructor had invited me to ride because my daughter was the only child who turned up that day and had seen how comfortable I am with nags. Local people all know each other and consequently our neighbour had asked the instructor who could ride out for him and said to ask me. I felt so honoured as was, but the thanks I received and the way he said that I am booked at least twice a week for several weeks, then turned up at ours the next day with two bottles of excellent red (I am not allowed at present), well such things make me feel trusted and wanted, which makes a vast difference.
I'm on the road to integration but I'll never really start feeling it until the French government says it's Ok for me to stay and put down roots. There's also the issue of how will I survive financially at retirement? NZ superann is not really transferable and I haven't been in France long enough to have accumulated enough French pension to live on. I really want to stay, I want to feel settled and safe but the environment is not yet conducive to that. I have moments of feeling at ease and content but they are the moments between the fear of being kicked out.