Assurance maladie & Carte Vitale

I have just received my form from l’assurance maladie to fill in. It asks for the S1 which I have, but there is no space to put in that I also work as well as receiving a UK pension. I can’t produce a salary slip as I am self employed as a psychoanalyst. Do you think proof of paying tax in UK is sufficient? Or should I just apply using my S1 and correct things later? Any ideas. Don’t want to deceive and also don’t want to complicate. Any thoughts?
Thanks

Hi Brenda

Have you thought about making an appointment and speaking with someone face-to-face.

I’ve been accompanying some newcomers to our local CPAM to speak with the Assurance Maladie folk re the S1 etc - the AMaladie folk are very patient and helpful and queries are answered on the spot. :hugs:

Have you sorted out your tax situation? And are now paying tax on your earnings here? As personally I think you could be opening up a can or worms with CPAM if you start talking about UK salaries and tax.

The essential point is that with an S1 then the UK covers your health costs - which is really all Ameli/CPAM needs to know. Keep it simple!

Thank you Jane, I felt the same myself after some reflection. And decided to give CPAM what they asked for which is the S1 and supporting documents.

I am not salaried but come under the heading of ‘liberal profession’ here in France, but all is above board with the bank, (who asked for my tax details when I opened the account). So all my tax is paid correctly in England and the forms filled in here, to avoid double tax payments. So I don’t need to complicate CPAM. I think I got a bit anxious with all the documentation!

I’m going to go ahead with the S1 way of things and as you say, keep it simple!

Best,

Brenda

Brenda Crowther

brendacrowther7@gmail.com

www.junglove.co.uk

This is totally irrelevant for your health insurance, and sorry to harp on about it, but the bank is not the tax authority! Your bank might be absolutely fine about it, but the french tax authority might have completely different views. If you are resident here I really don’t understand why you are be paying tax on earnings in the UK. You do do a french tax return showing all your worldwide income don’t you?

Yes, you’re right - it is irrelevant for the health insurance. So far as the tax situation was concerned, I just gave the bank what they asked for. However, I did visit the bureau des impôts in my local town (Macon) and had to fill in the requisite forms. They were happy about my continuing to pay tax in UK for the moment as long as I filled in the right forms to avoid double tax payments. They were very helpful.

My arrival in France was complicated and I haven’t been here long. I came last year, and visiting a friend in Switzerland, broke my back. I was wonderfully well-cared for, free, under the Swiss reciprocal arrangement for accidents system, which also covered me for physiotherapy afterwards. But it took three months. If I was going to break my back, Switzerland would be my preferred place! So when I recovered, though somewhat exhausted, found myself an apartment and a bank account to start with in France. As a result of the exhaustion I haven’t been able to move fast on the health insurance or the tax - and the tax people were very charming about this and gave me the information on how to continue to pay tax in the UK, whilst avoiding double tax in France. When the health insurance documents are sent off, I will begin the transfer of tax.

Does this story make things clearer?

Thanks for coming back to me on this, always helpful.

Best

Brenda

Brenda Crowther

brendacrowther7@gmail.com

www.junglove.co.uk

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Much clearer and reassuring, especially having visited the tax office.

A friend of ours broke his back in several places last year in a riding accident and was treated excellently in Macon! He had nurses at his door twice a day, endless balnéothérapie and is now fine and pain free. France can do healthcare too…

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Glad you feel that sounds OK!
I wasn’t criticising the French system as I hadn’t experienced it at that time - rather I was pleased to be in such good hands in a university hospital in Bern with such a different atmosphere from England. I love France, love the culture and have received much help from the people here, and all the authorities in a very civilised and charming manner. My doctor here, also, is an absolute sweetie-pie as well as being efficient!

Good wishes to you, and a Happy Christmas … are we neighbours? I live in Tournus?

Brenda

Brenda Crowther

brendacrowther7@gmail.com

www.junglove.co.uk

About 90km due east from you, up in the Haut Jura…

Beautiful spot …

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Have you been declaring your UK pension and self-employed income here in France? UK pension, whether state or private/company, needs to be declared to the French tax authorities even where tax has been paid in the UK.

If you reside in France you should have been doing both. You will need to regularise the situation in any event to ensure your right to reside post-Brexit.

Yes, i have my accountants statements and pax paid in UK and I have the form to declare my earnings, which I must convert to Euros, so as not to pay double tax. I went for some advice to the bureau des impôts some months ago and now go down to see them on Monday before the end of the French year. Does this sound tidy enough to you according to your experience of things here? Thanks for the comment about Brexit, which I pay attention to.

Brenda Crowther

brendacrowther7@gmail.com

www.junglove.co.uk

1 Like

Converting to Euros isn’t what avoids paying double tax, it is the tax treaty between the UK and France that does that.

UK income has to be declared on your French tax return and you should probably declare youyrself as not tax resident in the UK.

UK statem forces and local authority pension is always taxed in the UK and not France but needs to be decalred on your French tax return even so. The amount of of UK taxed pay may change your French tax band.

UK personal/company pensions should be declared on your French tax return and will be taxed in France, taking into account of tax you have paid on it in the UK. However if the France tax liability is less than the UK tax liability on these pension you won’t get a refund from the French tax authorities.

These are only broad principals and you should talk to both the French tax/social security authorities and the UK tax authorities and/or get yourself an accountant that will staer you through this keeping you square with all the various authorities and minimising the tax you pay.

What’s been confusing me from the start, is how the OP can be living in France and working, but apparently not in the healthcare system via their work. I haven’t liked to raise it but since the subject has now been broached, I might as well.
If you live and work in France, normally you must be registered to work in France, with your siret number and all, and you pay cotisations via whatever regime you work under. Whichever caisse you pay your cotisations to, is the caisse that automatically issues your carte vitale.
The only alternative is, if you’re a cross border worker or a posted worker. In that case you must be affiliated to the social security system of another EU state; that state issues you with a workers S1 form (which is not the same as the retirement S1 form), which you take to CPAM. Since the OP is paying UK tax I am guessing she physically returns to the UK to work and is paying NICs in the UK. That being the case, she should have informed HMRC she now resides in France but is continuing to work in the UK, and obtained a workers S1.
I can’t help feeling there has been a breakdown in communication somewhere. Is each authority clear about which country the OP lives in, which country her work is physically carried out in, which country her self-employment is registered in and which country she pays her social security contributions to?

I thank you for your response Anna, but I find it very jumbled, unclear, and can’t make sense of it in relationship to my personal situation. I’ve done all the right things, been above board, seen the relevant authorities and nothing is hidden about my situation. I follow what they ask me to do. I have also been here only a short time and can’t do everything at once. I find it very stressful as well. Although cotisation may be the translation of contribution, it doesn’t follow that they represent the same principles so I don’t know the manner in which you use it, in the French or English sense.
I can only say that the S1 is sent in with the documents, that I have followed their requirements, and I work with the tax people separately. I work in UK and Switzerland and pay my tax in UK.

I don’t pay contributions in my UK system because I am beyond retirement age and not either entitled to a pension here. This is why cotisation doesn’t equate with contribution because the two operate on different principles. I am hoping if I keep my situation above board, the separate authorities will tell me if I need to do anything extra.

Brenda Crowther

brendacrowther7@gmail.com

www.junglove.co.uk

That clarifies things a lot. It hadn’t been mentioned before, or if it has, I missed it. Ignore what I said :+1:
In that case, to go back to your original question, I don’t think you need tell CPAM that you are still working. If the UK classes you as a retiree, stick to that and keep things simple.

Brenda, tegardless of where you pay your tax you need to declare your income in France (assuming that is where you are resident and in that case probably tax resident).

Anna’s reply covers the essentials - you are resident in France, you must declare your global income in France.

There may be a bi-lateral treaty (such as there is between the UK and France) which determines how dual taxation does or doesn’t apply.

Have you declared to the UK authorities that you are resident in France and have you declared to the French authorities your income (taxed or untaxed/ pension or otherwise) you are paid in the UK?

The authorities in France and th UK will only tell you what to do if you have fully declared what your sitituation is - where your are resident and the countries you derive income from (pension, salary or fees).

But don’t stress about it, as if there is a mistake it will get sorted. Do as you have been doing and make sure the tax authorities have the information. If you have recently arrived in France it will be next May that you declare your tax, and things can get resolved if need be.

The bugger is always having to reconcile the different tax years (jan-jan and apr-apr) so it became hugely easier when 95% of everything was taxed here (less tax too!)

Deal with the S1 and Ameli now, and then have a good festive season. The tax authorities will still be there in january,

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Thank you for your information. The tax office told me that and I have the forms. I went to the tax office because I knew that and because I wanted to be straight. I know that I have to declare it but that wasn’t what I was asking! Please, please stay on piste otherwise everything gets tangled with opinions and advice, however good, but is off the point!!!

Brenda Crowther

brendacrowther7@gmail.com

www.junglove.co.uk

According to your web site you have a business in France and work from there. As a French resident you have to complete a tax return disclosing your worldwide income even if the tax has already been paid elsewhere and a dual tax treaty is in place. In France your business needs to be set up and registered before you start trading and you have to show your SIRET number on all adverts. If you are self employed your access to healthcare should have been part of your business setup procedure.
The facts don’t add up.
It appears