Hi folks - wondering if any of you great and good people out there can point me in the right direction or at least reassure me that the flood of paperwork will stop soon! I registered as an AE in Dec 13 so I could take up a contract for a few hours English teaching. No problem registering and getting Siret No. But since then I seem to be getting mail on a daily basis requiring more and more forms to be filled. I have completed forms to join all the pension and health care stuff, but still getting harassed by another company telling me (3 times) that I must sign with them, registered to declare and pay online but now have forms from tbe local centre des finances requesting all the info over again and wanting details of my offices and workshops so they can charge me CFE! As many of you will be aware, I work on the premises of my clients to deliver the courses and work very few hours a week. Have I inadvertantly signed up to something I shouldn't have , or is this par for the course? Any comments / thoughts would be very welcome.
Yes Clare, there is, but don't expect any support from any of the banks if you sign one of those and then need them to help you out.
As regards being wholly liable for any debts, including and extending to your own property, I do believe that there is something called a declaration insaisissabilite depending on if the house is used for the business, so this should be considered as well. We have one drawn up by a notaire to stop anyone claiming against our house. However if you have a lot of land the declaration does not extend to the land, only the house.
Hi Jemima,
I am an Entrepreneur Individuel, or E.I. and my independent work income falls under the BNC tax regime. The main difference between that and a EURL or a SASU, SAS, or other business structure is that your are wholly liable for any debts, including and extending to your own property. I don't have a salary, my take home is what is left after the cotisations have been paid, VAT taken care of, etc. I had to get a VAT number because most of my EU clients refused to give me any work under the EU money laundering regulations unless I had a EU tax number to give them. I had to go to the local business tax office to get this, but it was a simple enough formality. It is a pain having to deal with VAT, but that is just like any other structured business. Other than that, for tax deduction purposes, it is run like any other company, although you can't provision for ongoing debts like you would in a normal business. Personal taxation is fairly heavy as a result, basically anything perceived as a benefit will see you taxed - except for those tools provided for by law, e.g. private complementary health cover (loi Madelin) - even a car that you acquire on HP for your business purposes will be taxed as a benefit to the value of your monthly payments. So, basically, it is swings and roundabouts. Running an EI is fairly simple, however, if you start making tons of money, you will soon run out of business things on which to spend it and then the taxman will be lurking :-) Running anything else, SA, EURL, SASU, requires more admin hassle, more admin expenditure, but allows you more latitude with what you decide to do with the money the business earns at the end of the day - if in doubt, discuss it with an accountant
Hi Sarah,
Working for only one company can (and I say, "can", and not "will", as usually it only occurs if the URSSAF is of a mind to investigate the company you are billing) lead the URSSAF to requalify your work agreement as salaried employment - this will be particularly irksome for the "employer" as they will be "sued" (under an administrative procedure called "redressement" so that the corresponding administrative organisations can get back their money back for unpaid dues. It will also mean that they will either have to provide you with a work contract as a salaried employee, or else for the future cancel any work they are giving you, and by the same token make you redundant. Suffice it so say that it all gets potentially very complicated, and you risk ultimately being on the losing end of the stick. If you can, try and get another client so that you can show, if ever asked to prove it, that you don't have just a single work relationship with one company.
I set up AE a few years ago now. It may have changed but I was sent a lot of stuff that was not mandatory at all, so I just binned it. For me the process was really simple, most done on line and a few forms. Maybe Mr H has changed things ??
Thanks Tim, thanks Clare. Most helpful.
Cheers,
John
This is the official site. If you go through one of the others, they try to charge.
Personally, I say just do it yourself via their website. Cut and paste stuff you don't understand into Google Translate.
It is relatively straight forward.
If you don't have a Sécu number, put in zero.
I have been through this thread and collected some very useful information. Thanks Hilary for your offer to screen doubtful posts we are bond to receive the moment we register as an Auto-Entrepreneur. Years ago I started a business in France (there was no Auto-Entrepreneur status then) and before I even had my phone connected I was swarmed with bills, offers, final requests for payment, etc... I finally had to hire the services of an accountant which saved me a lot of money in the end.
I am about to register as an Auto-Entrepreneur, nothing frightens me in the system apart the vision of my mail box overflowing. So, yes Hilary, you might hear from me, and thanks in advance.
I have a question here, what site should I go to to register my new business as an Auto-Entrepreneur? I have gone through many sites offering help, advice, ect.. with a link to a registration form that seems to be official, but I am worried that if I go through those sites (as opposed to directly to the official site), they are the one who will send me spammy mail later.
Thanks for your help.
John (Jean, as I am French)
I would just like to chip in to warn everyone with a business about the scams in operation. When you register a new business you appear to be fair game for the scammers who will write very official-looking letters to you, which appear just to be for confirmation of details etc. but are in fact contracts for advertising in absolutely worthless directories and the like. One company even calls itself the RSI, although its logo is nothing like the official one of the RSI.
Read everything very carefully - if your French is not particularly good, just look for any mention of money! As an AE you have nothing to pay other than the charges on your income each quarter/month depending on how you have chosen to pay.
I have had several customers caught out by such scams - one being a rolling contract for a minimum of 3 years at nearly a thousand Euros a year. And if it's any consolation, I showed one letter to my French husband who was convinced it was genuine, until he really read the small print.
I always tell my customers to run anything by me if they are unsure and 9 times out of 10 it's a scam.
The CFE form is compulsory, however - but AE currently have exemption from the tax itself.
And the document from the BTP Pro (for businesses in the building trade) is to be completed, just to state you have no employees.
If anyone is any doubt, feel free to pm me - or scan a copy of the form (making sure any personal information is not visible) and post it on here - I presume that's possible - or if not, post it elsewhere and provide a link to it.
I just wanted to say 'Thank you Shelley' for starting this thread. Although I am yet to experience this, at least I will be prepared!! And thank you Holly for that info.
Thank you, Holly!
That's very helpful and I've certainly had some of those "unnecessary" mails which seem very convincing and urgent when you receive them. I think the end is now in sight and I've sorted the s.i.e. tax office stuff out now, which is a relief. Now just need to wait to get paid and start paying all my lovely contributions! Thanks again for your help and advice.
Relative to the paperwork aspect, here's an excerpt from an email I recently received from my tax/business consultant when he registered my consulting business as AE; it might help:
"Meanwhile, you will undoubtedly receive a load of other documents some of which are unnecessary (SPAM if you like). If you are unsure about what to complete or not, please don't hesitate to ask Peter and/or myself. Here are but a few:
· Reunica, AG2R La Mondiale (AGIRC+ARRCO, UGRR+UCRC or ISICA), MORNAY, HUMANIS, MALAKOFF etc are to do with the pension/retirement of salaried employees (not your case). You can safely ignore their letters as they just mail EVERYBODY !
· Calendrier: This is a list of when someone from the RSI is stationed locally indicating opening hours should you ever wish to see them in person.
· RSI Bulletin d'adhésion: Ignore this as its asking for €249 to enter your details into a kind of small business directory .... this is bogus and a TOTAL Scam!
· Registre Internet Français : Most definitely ignore this as, not only is a total SCAM, it costs €958 per year!"
There are a lot of factors to consider to answer this one. 1. Do you have any other income/household income? 2. Remember unlike AE under other regimes you can take in to account expenses, provided they are receipted and therefore only pay tax on the net amount. I am not an expert on tax but if it is taxed through your normal income tax return then the rate will be at your nominal household rate, I can't speak for the other regimes EURL, SARL etc... This is where an accountant would come in handy if you have an idea of your anticipated business income/expenditure. We have an accountant because my husband has a pension in addition to the AE and he calculated all the scenarios for us.
Any idea how much more than the upper limit I would have to earn to make it worthwhile changing regimes? I don't think I could bear going through the paperwork hell again but it frustrates me to say no to potential work.
You can always find another invoice if you look hard enough and yes keep an eye on the levels of earnings or they will tell you that they are changing your regime for you.
In addition to £17000 contracting for a UK company I invoiced 250 euros for private English teaching - I hope this counts! Sounds like I'm ok for last year, and this year I just need to work fewer hours if I want to avoid changing regimes.
I believe it is tax year which is Jan to Dec here. Just try and find yourself another client, as you only set up in July I would suggest it is early days for you yet. You only have to put out one other invoice to someone else & you are covered. I don't know anyone who has been audited under AE yet but you need to be aware that you cannot just work for one person. Cotisations are high for employers here and it seems that AE is a way of employers avoiding paying them. If you are working for just one person really they should pay you under something like for eg: CESU especially in light of the amount you are earning. It depends on what you do for a living and how many hours you work for this one company/person as CESU is usually for domestic workers. Or you should look to declare perhaps on your normal annual tax return. Again it depends on your reasons for choosing AE but try to find yourself just one other invoice during the year.
Yes, in a French tax year, which is a calendar year 1Jan to 31 Dec.