the secret's out - it's really the URSSAF loto!
Nothing is certain Ron but Hollande has expressed his views that the AE scheme isn't fair (talking about artisans), I think and hope it's just part of the usual electioneering - promises that won't be kept if he gets in. My thoughts after hearing him, which I mentioned to you at the time, were that IF he does get in and IF he does decide to change things, it COULD be that he'll change/abolish it for all new AE leaving the existing ones to run under the current rules. I can't really see him scrapping or seriously changing the system for everyone. That's why I said if you're going to do it, best do it before the elections. Don't know what others feel on the subject...?
We have both had similar and know several other people with the same experience. We believe they have all numbers from 0 to X million on a piece of paper, stick a pin in a number and charge that. Seems to be as good a theory as the responses we have had from URSSAF.
@andrew and all
Hi, certain members, were most helpful to me before Xmas, in helping me decide that adopting an AE was the right thing to do. Currently, I am developing the material for my business which will be ready before the end of January. I am geared up to 'apply' online, but am mindful of various comments along the lines of 'best to do this, before a certain person is elected who may well change the 'rules', making the concept of an AE less attractive. I don't need full details, just some one to say....Do it now, or Before March or whatever. Thanking you in anticipation. Ron Birks
even three years in they still can't get it into their heads that AE only pay based on their turnover! I could understand all the mistakes back in 2009 but for them to continue making them...! I think they see micro entreprise and launch the normal procedure without reading further to see that it's an AE.
Having said that, and to stop the "all expats ever do is moan" comments, it's a great system that allows so many people to work legally and once it's up and running it's a doddle: three years in and everything's sorted, yes there's the odd daft bill but a quick phone call and they back down, tail between their legs admitting that it's their mistake. However, i'm waiting with baited breath for my first cfe bill in the autumn... :-O
I'll maybe do it when I have an hour or two spare but I am always so pressed for time. I have a week working from home at the end of this month so maybe I'll do it then - fortunately it's not a huge amount this time.
Or go to see them - as we put it, do a 'razzia' (raid). We have found them rather bored and inactive in Perigueux but still able to claim to be understaffed and overworked, so we are quick, to the point and very demanding. We are still ahead on points...
agree on that one - always phone straight away to sort things out, the longer they're left unchanged the more they become set in stone !
Makes you wonder who is in charge huh!
I must admit that I can't bear to wait for them to notice their errors I have to phone up and slog it out straight away as I put aside each bill the amount I calculate I owe them and daren't rely on them to tell me what I should be paying cos if they get it wrong you still have to pay!
Thank god that I don't run a huge money spinning business as I could well imagine what s**t I could find myself in. Just have to stay informed and well on top of it all.
They absolutely do not understand ACCRE, I also benefit but when I looked yesterday it appears they haven't put the rate up since October (start of my 3rd year). However, a quick look at my 'account' shows that I owe them money - the difference between the 2 rates, for the last 2 months - bonkers! I briefly considered sending the deficit straight away but then realised that would probably confuse matters even more so I am now waiting for them to tell me their declaration page was erroneous.
They also did it to my husband and it took them over a year to realise and as he pays trimestrially, it was a huge error but they did give us time to pay and waived the overdue payment charge - very kind of them considering it was their error.
Signed, liked on FB, Tweeted and Google +1'd !!! Lets hope it helps.
hear, hear! Everyone seems to think that builders have got some kind of loophole going on but an AE is the same as a micro but you pay charges as and when you create them instead of the crippling micro system of paying a guessed amount which in the third year you get a thumping catch-up bill for which is the reason why most businesses up til now in France went out of business in the third year.
AE system was set up as a publicity stunt that worked really well, much better than the gov though it would hence the desperate trying to tinker with it now which i don't think they should be allowed to get away with.
Totally agree - builders should have certificates of competency, insurance and be registered...and then, where is the problem to anyone?
Hah...been there, done that!! By my second visit I knew more about their setup than they did and me just a poor foreigner!
I laughed when I tried to pay them the cotisation rates that they have in their leaflets and on their website for the 4th quarter for those of us lucky enough to benefit from Acre - starting an AE when unemployed with discount rate cotisations for the 1st three years on a sliding scale - and they refused!
They had set the sliding scale at 5.2% for the first 3 trimesters and then at 9.2% for the next 4 trimesters and 13.2% for the next 4 - which if you can see would mean paying one rate for the first three trimesters of each year and the next rate up for the last trimester.
OOOOHHHHHHHH noooooooo....that was way too complicated and after receiving my first declaration 9 months after starting up (well, second as the first one was wrong!) I had huge discussions on the phone with them to try and pay them what they had decided but which when it came to it was out of their comprehension zone - so happily settled for paying one rate per year to my benefit!
Since then have had no problems except for receiving the pro tax form - but a quick phone call to my tax office confirmed that I was still exempt
Had more mistakes when my caisse de maladie was finally changed from CPAM to RAM and they didn't know who I was with despite my having headed letters from them!! Took a couple of phone calls but they've settled down now
Got to love them though URSSAF, my lovely chambre de commerce which isn't
Done !
Yes there are problems, but most have been resolved and it's a good scheme that works well... once you've explained to your local urssaf and rsi how it works and what you're supposed to pay (as was the case when it started, since then it's been excellent - by French standards of easy admin and buraucracy!!!)
Hi Wendy,
yeah with you. Trying to persuade my OH. She has been reminding me that it took us almost a year to get our SIRET numbers and then they wanted to know what we had earned whilst waiting and have us declare and pay there and then. So we told them we had earned nothing. As she reminded me, we were told there and then in the URSSAF office where we were creating Hell anyway, that if we had zero returns then do not bother to fill in forms and return them because it is timewasting for them since they are understaffed! Now we have to return zeros, OK we do it online anyway. But we are up for anything to get some 'revenge' on these complete (word expunged)!
You can change your regime Rosemary. I did as AE works much better for me.
Please don't turn this into a moan about builder AE's again. There are many reasons to be an AE and I can assure you that my husband has full decennial insurance as a carpenter, which he can't offset against costs as he is an AE. He also has a certificate from the Chambre de Metiers confirming his UK City and Guilds certificates are acceptable qualifications for his trade in France.
Provided your artisan is fully competant, registered and insured and you are happy with the price you are paying, what does is matter exactly how he/she pays their charges so long as they do!
I agree that AE is probably not the right long term status for building trades as one that starts working well will have to hire labour and will very quickly reach the ceiling limit - good though to start up a business.
In the case of decennial insurance, you shouldn't hire someone who doesn't have it as there are no guarantees if any type of problem occurs and that it should b asked for before hiring anyone. You would think that not being able to offset insurance costs would be a drawback though I have hired an excellent tiler, who doesn't undercut if not the reverse, who does have his insurance.
Thanks Tom and good luck with your new business!