I appreciate we should never feel illwill towards our fellow human beings but when they behave in an unhuman way, what do we do?
Whatever the shortcomings of M. Hollande, he cannot be blamed for this attack. Blaming the government can only result in a move towards extreme right government, a police state and possible civil war.
We must not allow ourselves to become what we hate most in our enemies.
Anyway, if those people wanted to make a political protest, that wasn't the right moment.
I too agree that IS simply claimed responsibility for this because it adds to the fear. I also agree that the government/security services can't be blamed for this - the perpetrator was a virtual unknown as regards police records so why should he have been under surveillance for anything terror related. Groups in both France and the UK are using this horror for their own ends and it's infuriating.
As a more random point, with many of the murders over the past few years there's mention of 'inspired by a speech from X of Isis to kill', 'influenced by propaganda broadcasts' or whatever. I've not looked because I don't want to see but how are these people accessing broadcasts, speeches, finding groups that support acts of terrorism? Is there nothing that can be done to shut these things down so that would-be killers don't get caught up in the, I don't even know what to call it, ideology, martyrdom, 'glamour' that seems at least with some of them to propel them along to commit murder?
I think unfortunately Valerie much of this communication is being carried out over the Dark/Deep Web, so is not easy to track down as much of it is encrypted and not referenced by search engines.
Thankfully the skilful online hacker group 'Anonymous' are dedicating their skills to taking down as many of these 'ISIS' sympathetic sites as possible - reducing the amount of information that can be accessed by would-be jihadists and cetainly saving lives.
That's why I'm wondering how these otherwise 'normal' people are managing to access it. Many people dislike Anonymous but when I saw their Twitter Isis account anihilation a few months ago I thought it was wonderful - a proactive response to getting this stuff out of circulation.
You can't stop something by banning it, you only give it more importance than it deserves. It didn't work with Christianity and it won't work with IS.
The only defense against misguided ideas is ridicule and education.
And it isn't just "Them", there are those among "Us" who believe that the world is six thousand years old and fossils are a fraud, or that men never walked on the moon and Elvis is still alive.
Careful Mike, you'll have them all jumping off the edge of the earth!
I agree about education - that and a will to work together - not all fanatics are on the 'other' side.
Not sure about ridicule (didn't work for Charlie Hebdo) - I try to be respectful and tolerant of other's beliefs - but it must be reciprocal.
But doesn't that prove my point? IS saw Charlie as a major threat. These grim fundamentalists are weakened when people begin to laugh at them.
I should think ISIS members are a very macho lot (judging by their posturing with weapons and brutal executions, male dominance and so on), they probably wouldn't take too kindly to being ridiculed - especially when their prophet is being maligned. A reactive bunch brainwashed by a religion that, it seems, regards jihad as a part of spreading their message. Christians aren't any better, viz burning of martyrs, witches and torquemada. I've got Muslim and Christian friends and I value them. I was going to say 'thank God we live in a secular country', perhaps not!
Come to sunny Normandie where we live in harmony and even our terrorists are harmless -
http://www.francesoir.fr/societe-faits-divers/allah-akbar-je-vais-tous-vous-tuer-un-homme-interpelle-sur-une-plage-de-la
'Macho'!
I think that it is fairly apparent that most of the recruits we have witnessed
as killers are unstable mentally.....and, indeed such tellurians are easily
lead to do anything.
Take care of mental illness as much as we can and a lot of killing will be
irredicated from the world.
Yes.....easier said than done!
Mike, the abysmal state of the French Security Services can be squarely laid at the doorstep of the French government.
Whilst It is quite right not to jump to conclusions about the involvement of ISIS in the Nice killings as this man was obviously disturbed, it begs the question as to where did he obtain the weapons that he had in his cab.
Here in the Clunysois and Charollais in Southern Burgundy we have established a Collectif to inform people of the fact that refugees are people just like us, but who have been forced out of their lives, homes and jobs by violence.
The Prefecture announced that 150' refugees were to be housed in an empty college in the next small village to ourselves as part of their resettlement programme. It was a very badly worded statement and did not say if they would be families or young men or a mixture. The backlash and invective that came from the village was appalling and we are working to avoid a repeat of that hatred.
I was particularly saddened yesterday when UK Police said that the shooting of two women in a swimming pool car park and suicide of their killer was not likely to be a terrorist incident. In fact a man killed his wife and daughter and then himself. It was the classic murder of family members for whatever very sad reasons, but the fact that terrorism had to be mentioned at the outset shows how paranoid we are becoming, and how we are thus boosting ISIS' credibility. Even a refugee in Germany having a brainstorm on a train with an axe is put down to terrorism because of a flag found in his room. As Barbara says, mental illness is to blame, not a jihadi organisation. I despair of journalists, some times, and the Police are getting as bad. Sometimes murder is just.... murder. Awful for all involved, but murder it is, however deluded the killer was at the time.
Diana, from what I have heard this young man listened to the call of ISIS to act on his own and his was an act of revenge for the death of someone he loved in Afghanistan.
ISIS are giving credibility and motivation to perhaps mentally disturbed people to act on their own. The fact that these people have not been radicalised as we tend to think of it does not affect the fact that ISIS are behind these killings.
They updated the news this morning. Investigators now believe he was not an Afghani refugee but was from Pakistan. Isis have apparently released pictures of him indicating he was one of their soldiers. True or not, this will fuel bad feeling against genuine refugees.
I am horrified by the thought of living in a country with an efficient security service and all that implies.
A much greater personal danger all of us face is of being killed or maimed by an otherwise respectable French driver who thinks that the rules of the road only apply to other people.
While "terrorism" is a problem, it is still only a minor cause of death when compared to alcohol, smoking or obesity.
The simple answer to the current spate of attacks is for the government to stop sending arms and military personnel to places where they have no business to be and for the police and potential employers to start treating people of Middle Eastern appearance with the same respect as others.
Valerie, ISIS have already infiltrated themselves amongst the refugee population.
The experience we have had here is a reaction against people who have already been accepted into but are at the start of their initiation into the French system.
The fear that is being felt at the moment is that the refugees are from a different religious background and have not grown up to understand the importance of secularism in French society. France has the largest Muslim population in Europe and I think it would be disengenuous to think that ISIS would not make use of that.
Mike, so you would be happy with France being part of the Caliphate?
I am against total surveillance, but ignoring targeted intelligence is nothing less than stupid.
This is a battle for our very freedoms, just look at both Egypt and Turkey, where elected leaders promised to support freedom whilst being Islamic at the same time.
Perhaps western Europe needs to make more of our secularism. Even in the UK where the monarch heads the Church, we are hardly a religious state. We have been bending over backwards not to offend people of other religions - arguably to the point that many natives are offended by the emphasis on religions we don't sympathise with - but perhaps we should have been explaining that religion is a personal thing, to be played down and not fussed about. The scarves worn by muslim women don't offend me, I just don't think it's appropriate to insist upon wearing them all the time in the UK and France. A burkha does offend me, as I feel that covering one's face is sinister and I feel threatened. Is this never explained to immigrants/refugees? Why not? Why is western Europe so reluctant to ask incomers to conform?
No, I know they're using genuine refugees as a cover, Jane. It's a perfect vehicle for them and it was predicted. I was posting an update of what investigators have discovered so far.