Sarah,
In the end it doesn't matter, which SS system you pay into, because pension arrangements are EU wide and your pension can consist of returns based on contributions in different countries. The downside of my arrangemenent is that I don't get French state healthcare but if you are already in the system as an AE, you are fixed up.
I expect to get French healthcare in future as I can claim a french retirement pension.
Thanks - I've sent you a friend request - self-employment is out due to the AE/ME annual limits so I think my only option would be do to what you did..
So you pay all your French cotisations rather than the company then? I'd do this if only this annual limit was higher.
What do you mean " Is your contract French or Swiss"?
My Swiss employer contracts me to work for a French company, which contracts me to work for another French company (a French Icon, incidentally)
Depending on what your work is about: basically all is said correctly when it comes to work from France for a foreign company, so actually nothing needs to be added....
There may be an alternative option, namely that you are employed in Ireland with a working contract there but for health-reason you need to work remotely. Such contract has some disadvantages regarding duration, health cover etc but is worth to find out more (I only know German/French regulation and they are certainly different as also the Germans get a lot of paperwork involved)
Tragically, for a foreign company employing someone who is working officially from France would mean the employer has to full-fill "all these things"(Unions, inspector d' travail...) this +120 to 150 % as mentioned above by Michelle. To my experience most are trying to escape exactly these constrains.
My wife is Swiss, she has had work with her old university and because she was a contributor in her home country had to contribute there but she was told by the university that she could have done it here instead (which is more expensive). On that basis, find out if there is a choice across borders where reciprocal agreements exist, perhaps the EU portal might help there. Being an Irish employer, my gut reaction is not to even think in terms of any UK involvement but to potentially look on it as Ireland France. The £40k is around €57k I believe, ME and AE are out (our problem too) so to be blunt, I think you need specialist advice rather than anything any of us has to offer.
Is your contract French or Swiss?
Thanks for all your replies. I am already currently set up with a micro entreprise (I have various English training contracts which I could continue) but if I get the new job the salary would be about £40k which is way more than the annual limits for ME and AE so to be a contractor I'd have to go to the full accounting regime, pay VAT etc which seems to be a non starter...?
There seems to be some confusion about whether foreign companies have to pay SS under French rules or their own. I know there is a reciprocal agreement for tax but I had to give up my old home-based UK job because France told me my UK company had to pay SS in France due to my workplace being here. I am therefore surprised that some people seem to be employed in France by foreign companies paying into foreign SS systems.
I work in France and am employed by a Swiss company. My employer pays his and my social security contributions under Swiss rules ie way less than France and I pay French income tax. I am entitled to a pension from Switwerland because of Swiss pension contributions. The key is that there is a reciprocal SS agreement between Switzerland and France.
Presumably Ireland has similar agreement or it's automatic due to EU.
Hi,
I am employed by a company in Switzerland and I am an AE in France. No problem.
Just pointing out that the only real alternative is out if the contract attempted to make that a possibility, but if not a consideration ignore that point.
Good point. It doesn't say in the description, but I presume it's just to limit travel expenses for meetings etc. It's as easy for me to get to Dublin from here as the UK though (thanks to Ryanair!)
Hi, I could offer to take a salary reduction to compensate for the extra social charges, but why would I need to be an AE if I was employed?
Ooof, before I actually turn to work, good points Mary. I fell short of the UK 30 years and thus the basic pension is all I get which is lamentable (my private pension was one of the ones that went broke - I shall eventually receive 'compensation' if I live long enough). The pension age is going up as my OH is aware and not madly happy about, however one needs to pay in for a long time to have full benefit (it is better than UK pension by far), so hope somebody who is receiving it comments for you. Anyway, a note of caution is that a parliamentary sub-committee has already apparently prepared a paper on arguments for freezing and in particular cases such as X number of years outside the UK, respectively freezing and not paying pensions. Again, that has arisen on other posts and one or two people are better informed than I am. If the UK leaves the EU the chances of any of that happening appear to be high, plus other things becoming complicated or lost. It is, to say the least, becoming very complicated.
On the pension side - if you are on French payroll you will be paying contributions towards a French pension which is payable at 62 and is on the generous side. If the employer runs a pension scheme you could still pay into it but you would not receive tax relief as you live in another country. You could negotiate that you and the employer pay into a French pension/savings scheme instead, based on the same benefits offered to their locally employed employees. Depending on your age and your employment history in the UK you may have paid enough 'stamp' to have qualified for a full UK pension even if you stop contributing now - probably the case if you have worked and contributed for 30 years +. You can ask DWP for a forecast.
Henderson advised my OH because she works part time as an agent, one of our sources too, although the others did not say the same thing.
Are you doing work for anybody else? I know from when my bookkeeping was called in, which was fine, that the bulk of my work was with one NGO but different country offices on contracts that did not go across borders. They still asked if I was mainly employed by one organisation, so I gave them the contracts to look at and drew attention to the different addresses, especially different countries, contact people and gave them a source of checking that the country offices are indeed autonomous. The rules say we cannot work for a single employer, even as a consultant which is my status, so it is complicated and needs a good bit of guidance. My fortune at that time was that no contract was for more than 30 working days and that a couple overlapped with an entirely different NGO in the middle. Being with a single organisation as a consultant is, so they say, not permitted. However, the account advising both of us said to ignore that because they don't act on it as long as they don't see the contract and we pay our quarterly dues.
Hi Sarah, I am in similar position. I was working for a UK charity and moved to France. First thought I could resign and become a consultant but that is against HMRC rules - so my charity had to register themselves as a Employer with No Place of Business in France - it is a simple registration. However my employer and I have found to our cost that it costs a lot more in social charges/tax compared to the UK - but for me it is worth it to live in France. I am paid through a French payroll which is administered by Cabinet Henderson who do a lot of payroll for Leggett estate agent staff. The payroll per annum costs about E700 to run. In order to be on French payroll you will need a French contract. It is more difficult to get rid of someone on a French contract or make them redundant but it is not impossible, but agree it is much more stringent than the UK. For example if the business went into administration employees receive about 8 months worth of salary/training/support as opposed to about 2-3 months in the UK.
Given the choice I would have worked as self employed or on a consultancy basis - but because I had a pre-employment history with the company that was not possible - you may still have those options. Personally I would wow them at the interview, make sure they want you and then discuss how to get over the hurdle of your employment status. Happy to share more specifics with you if you want to email me direct.
I elected to be a consultant and set myself up as a micro-entreprise. I found it the easiest way for both me and the company I'm contracted to. Even with that the process has not been simple as I had to prove I was a 'real' consultant and not an employee - as my local tax office thought that the company I consult for was trying to avoid tax. It's all complicated and in the end I employed a local accountant to manage this - which if you go down the same route as me I would recommend.
I would first try to fathom why they are recruiting for UK or Ireland. What are the details of the job description.
Perhaps it would be inappropriate to make your suggetion. If you know why not then you protect yourself.