How many of the posters on this thread were on the streets of Belfast, Armagh etc during the 70’s? Any serving or previous serving members of 1 Para on here. ?? There is only the media coverage to go by, ask those that were on the streets, I do not condone any unlawful killing of soldiers or civilians but this is a very delicate subject. Where is the evidence other than a grainy picture or “witness” heresay.
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Who said 1 para were heavy handed, On what facts do you base your opinion, where you there?
And yes unfortunately when combatants meet there will be bloodshed, on all sides.
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The Saville report criticised General Ford for choosing the parachute regiment as it had a reputation for using excessive physical violence.
Colonel Derek Wilford, commander of 1 para disobeyed Brigadier Pat MacLellan’s orders on the day.
If the IRA had killed those civilians they’d be called terrorists, when the army killed them they were ’ doing their job in difficult circumstances. ’
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But the IRA and the DUP would have been immune from prosecution-as they are for the many civilians and Military murdered over many years.
Unfortunately, the Saville report was flawed from the onset. It took over 20 years to come to what verdict, “we are sorry” Evidence was cherry picked, and cost numerous millions. The report is and was a joke proving in all effect nothing on either side. MacClellan wasn’t even there the dozy old critter, it is always easy to quote something or someone after the event. I am not saying there is no blame to be placed on the soldiers present but when I read the report (or most of it) it was obvious that Saville and his team of cronies were out of there depth with their lack of knowledge and understanding in many respects of the situation of events that took place. This shambles was only instigated to save the Blairite govts face and to be seen to doing something.
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Yes. The government should really extend the same rules to everyone. I find it odd that they have chosen one soldier and as I said earlier I assume this is because a shot was fired at an already injured man.
Well you’re better informed than me. I can only read an official report and have no insight into conditions at the time.
I never served full time, just with the TA and Home Service Force, so I am unable to understand what the Troops went through while serving in Northern Ireland. What I do know was as a serving Police Officer there were a quite a number of times that I was scared (you can’t show it) and several where I thought that I might not be going home. From quiet conversations with friends that did serve, I do know that many went through hell (and some still are with flashbacks many years after the events). One close friend told me that he defecated in his pants the first time that he was under fire.
I’m not trying to excuse what happened on that day, but there were soldiers who say they were being shot at. Only some of those that were there (on both sides) will know what really happened.
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A friend of nearly 30 years was an army intelligence officer in NI for a large part of his service and he always maintained that it was in effect 'a war zone ', for self preservation every civilian (on both sides of the divide) was viewed as a potential terrorist and was treated as such, this attitude unfortunately led to countless mistakes with innocent people being killed or injured. What set Bloody Sunday apart IMO was poor leadership in dealing with the protests and if I was one of those seeking justice I’d be disappointed that no senior officers have been charged as they were the ones giving the orders to shoot.
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At last a sensible statement. I was one of those that patrolled the streets (6 tours) and if you werent there you wouldnt know, Saville and his cronies who cashed in for millions (over 100 million) never enven went out there to see for themselves.
So i say:
Don’t try to judge a soldier,
If you have not been there,
Unless you’ve walked along the street,
That only soldiers dare.
The above applies to any “war zone” which Ireland was whether the terminology was liked or not.
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I too have Army friends who spent many years in NI and say exactly the same.
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I’m beginning to think from this discussion that soldiers have 20/20 recall of what occured on Bloody Sunday even if they were still in their prams at the time; and civilians who lost loved ones and were on the streets of Belfast at the time can’t remember what they witnessed or have a reputation for treason.
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There was certainly religious discrimination against the minority Catholic population in Ulster in the past but don’t go OTT on the blame game. - troops were sent in because British citizens were being blown to bits by terrorists.; it was a duty of care, rightly so! A cursory reading of Irish history will show that the country has been in sectarian conflict for centuries with atrocities perpetrated by all factions. Historical events have shaped the two- culture, two- identity North and the latest tragedy of Brexit has now denied the possibility of a shared European identity. Be assured, the British identity is ardent amongst the loyalist population and I’d doubt the Republic would be too enthusiastic in taking on its paramilitaries if unification was mooted!
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Yes, loyalist terrorists and republican terrorists. Both sorts were blowing up British citizens.
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No need to differentiate between the terrorists, they were all criminals! But you’re incorrect to suggest that all the murdered citizens considered themselves British.
They may not have considered themselves British citizens, but that is what they were, and as such entitled to the protection of the armed forces sent specifically to stop internecine strife.
It is important to differentiate between varieties of terrorist because we only ever hear about the IRA, there’s rarely an acknowledgement that the UVF, UPV, UFF, UDA etc were just as bad.
And it is terrible to think part of the population were as afraid of people in uniform as they were of the paramilitaries, and with reason.
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And that those in uniform were afraid of the civilians, as they had no obvious idea of who their enemy was.
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Veronique, a terrorist is a terrorist no matter what organisation they pledge allegiance to or what religion, creed or otherwise. they were all the same. During the troubles, the news did on many occasions refer to which group had taken responsibilty. the most infamous one was definately the IRA or splitter groups thereof. There was alos another group that never gets a mention the RUC, they werent angels either. John is correct in that not all those that perished considered themselves British.
But the RUC was an official civilian police force set up by the Home Office and supposedly not a terrorist organisation, what with being an official, British, civilian rather than military organisation.
They weren’t supposed to be partisan, corrupt or in collusion with loyalist paramilitaries, let alone killing civilians, what with being the Royal Ulster Constabulary, set up by the British government, in order to protect everyone.
At least the likes of Slab Murphy never pretended to be neutral, not that they are any better.
I do actually think that a trained sheepdog who is a sheepworrier is worse than some random sheepworrying dog.