I loathe this man. He gets more unpleasant on a daily basis.
It takes one to know one
This is from the same program. It’s like something from a spoof series. Is this man really going to be the next UK PM!?
Let’s be brutally honest about this.
Like Trump, representing the darker face of America, Johnson represents a majority and darker face of the British people - like it or not- the recent European Elections have validated that.
He and Farage ARE the voices of the majority of the British people and are their mouthpieces. They tell their audiences what they want to believe, and they lap it up.
We may want to think otherwise, but the evidence is their in front of our eyes and ears. Makes you proud to be British doesn’t it?
Clearly the majority don’t feel the way you do. Perhaps you have privi information on Bo Jo. Won’t you share?
Together the Tories and the Brexit party got 40% of the vote in the EU elections - in what way does that represent a majority?
Admittedly Tory+Brexit+UKIP was over 50% in Peterborough but only just and I suspect that there are still a few decent Tory party members who are as much turned of by Johnson as the rest of us - only 25% or so though.
In short I think it is a stretch to claim a majority are behind Johnson - a worryingly large minority, yes, but still a minority.
So what did the combined opposition get? 60% of the vote? I don’t think so, but I stand to be corrected.
The 'majority’of Tory voters (the Party still IN power) are clearly in favour of Johnson and what he stands for - whatever that means. Overtly that shows they are anti-foreigners, which is no big surprise. Plus up the Brexit winners who were a one-subject proposition again based on anti-foreigners. Labour is either against Brexit or it isn’t and I haven’t seen the smallest indication that they are anti-Brexit despite a lot of wishful thinking. So even assuming half of the Labour voters are also anti-foreigners (?) and I would think that demographic group would be even more anti-foreigners than the Tories. I really think it is whistling in the wind to seriously believe that England at least is in anything other than a clear majority of anti-Europe and anti-Europeans plus every other ‘foreign race’ with the possible exception of the Americans.
Don’t change the goalposts - it was the majority of the country two posts up.
I’m not moving the goalposts at all. You have said that ONLY 40% of the vote went to the pro-Brexit (ie anti-foreigners) parties. My contention is logical to ask where the other 60% went? Your assumption seems to be that they went to being pro-remain, and I don’t see how that can possibly be true. The numbers don’t seem to crunch as if they did then surely 60% of the electorate would be demanding a General Election that doesn’t seem even remotely on the cards?
I don’t personally have any axe to grind here, other than wishing the whole dam’ farce was over and done with and the UK just buggered off to whatever fields of green call.
TL;DR - Pro Brexit parties 43.2% vs 55.9% anti-brexit parties (counting Labour on the anti side). Pro Brexit vote probably <40% vs >60%
Well we’ve go from “Johnson represents a majority and darker face of the British people” and “He and Farage ARE the voices of the majority of the British people” to “The 'majority’ of Tory voters are clearly in favour of Johnson”
Anyway, the difficulty with saying what % of people still want Brexit, or a no-deal Brexit is that the parties don’t line up neatly across the Brexit divide, and Labour really doesn’t know what the heck it is doing - the very fact that the traditional parties are both split on the issue is part of the problem
Using figures given on Wikipedia for the party block votes Tory+Brexit Party voting in the EU elections came to 39.3% (30.5+8.8), UKIP adds another 3.2% and the DUP 0.7% for a total of 43.2%
Against that there is LibDem (20.2% f the NI vote is included), Labour (14.2% if SDLP vote is counted), Greens (13%), SNP (3.5%), Plaid Cymru(1%), Change UK(3.3%) and Sinn Féin (0.7%) for a total of 55.9% - the missing 0.9% are the very small parties that only get a handful of votes.
I feel confident in assuming that all of the 55.9% do not feel that Johnson speaks for them - you might argue that some are Leave supporters and so, whether they like it or not Johnson represents their views but I will come on to that in a minute.
I also feel pretty confident that all of the UKIP and Brexit party voters espouse views that would put them in your “Johnson speaks for them” grouping.
But what about that Tory vote - there is a good argument that the Tories were actually wiped out to their core, largely moderate party faithful - a group of Tory soft Brexiteers/Remainers who probably are not in the Johnson camp (we know that Tory support for Johnson is strong but at 75% “for” there is still a sizeable group “against”).
What if we do the same with Labour? Labour leavers probably still voted Labour in the EU election as opposed to Tory Leavers (at least the hard Brexiteers which is who we are interested in) who moved en masse to Farage. Polling data suggests about 70% are Remain supporters, I think the party over worries about the “Labour Leave” vote but that’s a digression.
So maybe 30% are in the “Johnson speaks for them” camp.
Thus we can take 30% of the 14.2% (which is about 4.2%) and stick it in the BJ camp and add it to the 43.2% - but that still doesn’t get us a majority.
And if we do try to peer into the Labour and Tory vote to split out leavers and remainers we should take some of the Tory vote and move it the other way - in fact you might argue for moving the whole residual Toryvote which brings us back to less than 40% in his (hard Brexit) camp.
Does that add up for you?
Of course it all has to be taken with a pinch of salt where “the British People” are concerned because of the lousy turnout, but it is at least data from an election which is more reliable than polls because even with a lousy turn out the sample is much larger than polling can manage and people are really voting on the issues.
Oh, and it was your statement that “the recent European Elections have validated that” - so I assume that you are open to using the figures from that election.