Boundary wall horror

think again when you realise how much costs? there will be a pink fence there if the wall comes down!! and a petition to EU human rights…who is justified in this present climate to command demolition. of an 10k wall and order to rebuild 35cm back?..and what happened to truck drivers penalty?

I don’t think this will meet same response :sunglasses:

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Hi Karen, thanks for response im not sure myself, ive had no written notification at all, just an email from the municipals when enquired about truck drivers insurance that my wall referred to prosecutor, basically because if they can pull it while im away then truck driver owner does not need pay me and as rice pudding points out could claim compensation. My wall is definitely not in wrong place, im getting help now, but im lucky to find out.

Hi Robert, I thank you for your well considered response. I will reply in more detail for now, but yes I have email admission from company owner and a conversation with friend of mine who is architect. Whilst he admits guilt and says has lodged a claim, I do not believe as next day referred to prosecutor email received from Marie on behalf of municipal police…pretty factual I would think. My friend the architect t checked with Marie yes all true, nothing in writing to me at all, have no idea who prosecutor is or where he lives. I also have witnesses and photos. I think rice pudding nailed it when he said guilty party trying to reflect back on to me …and trust me they all grew up together and im absent, very lucky to have found out.

Your local court of justice is where the procureur will be based. You can probably ask the greffe about pending cases.

Hi Suzan,
Firstly, there is a world of difference between a matter being referred to a prosecutor, and a prosecution actually being started. I am sure that there must be many matters which are referred to a prosecutor, in relation to which, no prosecution is ever undertaken. The golden rule is to remember that until such time as you receive official papers from the court, there is NO prosecution taking place.
Bearing in mind that from what you have said previously it would seem that you have right on your side, so I doubt that you will ever receive any such papers.

The thing to do is to bring together all the papers needed to prove your case, and then pursue it, calmly and persistently, and be prepared for a long haul.

Remember, that in the same way that you need documentary evidence to prove your case, so will anyone else who may try to bring a prosecution against you.
If someone has actually referred the matter to a prosecutor, then that prosecuting authority is going to need documentary evidence in order to mount a prosecution.
So they are going to look at the official copies of the planning permission for the wall, and then they are going to compare that with what was actually built, and if they find that all is in order, then there will be no prosecution. Of course you will never be informed of this decision not to act, because you will have never been informed of their intention to act in the first place.

Pursue your claim with the registered office of the company involved.
If the company says that they cannot comment because the matter is subject to a prosecution, then inform them very firmly to the contrary, and tell them that you have not received any official notification of any prosecution, and that therefore there is NO prosecution taking place.
Inform the company that any further delay in paying your claim will result in them becoming liable for your legal expenses incurred in pursuing the matter further.
Just be plain that as far as you are concerned, their vehicle damaged your lawfully constructed wall and that you have substantial documentary evidence to prove those facts.

Seems like various parties to this matter are being awkward, so be prepared to be awkward back.
I find it odd that the Mairie should e-mail you “on behalf of” the Municipal Police.
If the police wished to tell you something, then they would do it themselves, and in any case it would surely be done by means of a letter rather than an e-mail.
Try writing to the Municipal Police and tell them that it is alleged that they are considering prosecuting you for some offence unknown to you. Inform them that it seems to you that their name is being taken in vain, and ask them to detail the procedure that they would follow in the event of commencing a prosecution against someone without that person’s knowledge. Also, require them to provide you with written copies of any complaint which may have been made against you.

In the event that you consider that the Mairie is being obstructionist or negligent, then an appropriately worded written complaint to the departmental Prefect should put the cat amongst the pigeons.

In general, it would seem that the other party to this dispute may be trying to wear you down by the deployment of both delay and fear tactics. Show them that you are determined and resolute, and eventually they will simply find it easier to pay up than to deal with all the trouble that you can stir up for them.

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my response was to @billybutcher :arrow_up: about dry stone walls and martinis :slightly_smiling_face:

How fluent are you in French, or are you relying on translation aps? I do wonder if something has been lost in translation - what precisely does email say?

As you say, the PP has to decide whether it is worth pursuing a case. Notification of any judicial procedure taken up by the public prosecutor has to be made with due process, as you point out, via some form of officially recognised, and correctly competent, channel. In civil law matters, pretty much any kind of summons is served via a court bailiff, l’huissier de justice.

In criminal matters, it depends on the type of crime, see here for an explanation of the procedure, and here, for an explanation of the competent courts.

With administrative.) law cases, someone generally needs to have filed a claim against an administration presumably in the present case against the mairie, for having taken a decision which has been to the detriment of a person directly affected by the element authorised by the administrative instance. The law was tightened in 2013 to try and prevent what was perceived as an excessively large number of meritless claims to the courts.

Any and all of these require some kind of official notice on the person or legal entity, for them to be considered validly made against that person or legal entity.

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if not kosher? is this an idiom as I don’t get that sentence sorry?

In regard to the premium I’m surprised as I’ve always been told it’s much more expensive in France. Actually I’ve often been told that apart from wine & real estate pretty much everything is more expensive in France, isn’t it?

Yes, that’s right.

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Suzan sorry to hear about your frustrating situation.

I can’t see how suggestions about the merits of insurance that you never had at the time of the incident help with your immediate problem.

I agree getting a litigation lawyer sooner rather than later is your best course of action. Though a 10,000 euro claim if you end up litigating will probably end up being less than your legal costs.

Civil litigation is often, though not always an instrument to bully those with lesser resources, will & understanding of the system. Not being so familiar in French legal system a typical litigated residential boundary dispute in the UK costs on average £50,000 & it amazes me how many people start out thinking fairness will resolve these matters without them understanding the cost implication.

You are facing a seemingly well financed owner of a business & an insurance company with both deep pockets & legal experience. The fact the driver admitted crashing into your wall may be the start of the case not the finish. If they are suggesting your wall was illegal then you may well end up in a counter suit where they expect you to pay for the damage to the vehicle as well as costs of recovery.

My advice is you need to know where you “legally” stand & if you don’t you need to get your cheque book out to pay someone to help assess your situation.

Sorry to say the law is somewhat a game of poker where you need to know the strength of your hand as well as having the resources to call the other player if necessary. Professionals always typically do better in both the court & at the felt table.

Also most people do not asses the emotional cost of a legal dispute especially ones that can go on for years. Try balance the frustration & anxiety you are feeling against the value of winning. Early settlement or just walking away 9 times out of 10 are the best option if you do not have significant resources that you do not mind losing.

It’s early days but the defendants insurance company may be figuring they have someone showing up to a gun fight with just a pen knife. You may have to even things up by paying for a lawyer.

I hope this post is not worrying (it’s not the intention) but before you get on the legal escalator think long & hard because it’s a confrontational system. Some fights are necessary but pick them carefully.

It is horrible, I hope it does not blunt your enjoyment of France, for what it’s worth the UK legal system is also bruising which has nothing compared with my experience with the pain of the US civil legal system.

Sincerely best of luck, it would be great if morality & fairness quickly prevailed in your favour.

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Generally, the only people who win in legal battles are the lawyers and in the casino, gamblers rarely win :slightly_smiling_face:

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“If not kosher” = “if not legitimate”

Kosher is, of course, the term that means foods that conform to the Jewish dietary regulations of kashrut.

For a Jew to eat non-kosher food is not appropriate or legitimate, the usage has widened beyond the strict religious setting, that is all.

No, though it does mean a potential secondary problem in that buildings insurance (I suspect more specifically public liability cover) is mandatory in France so I hope Suzan has sorted this aspect.

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Hi Suzan,

Yesterday you wrote the above words in response to Graham. Could you expand on this please, and in particular, why the reference to 35cm ?
I seem to recall, and I’m sure that others here will clarify, that the centre of any boundary hedge, fence, or wall has to be 50cm inboard of the actual boundary of the property. Could it be perhaps, that the wall was actually built too close to the actual boundary of the property ? If so, then that would change the ball game completely.
It’s your mention of “command demolition” and “rebuild 35cm back” that concerns me. Have you received official notification of this from some source ?

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Hi, meaning of kosher it is a kind of slang word commonly used in London …simply means legitimate, proper, genuine nothing to get excited about just a much used word, im not Jewish.

I must say I think there is far too much wild speculation and it is getting in the way.
I cannot see where there is any solid evidence that the issue that has been put to the prosecutor - if anything has - is anything to do with the boundary, or indeed anything to do with Suzan. It could be that the driver has been found to be driving without the correct papers, it could be that the vehicle has been found to be defective, it could be something else entirely that Suzan has no knowledge of and that will come as a surprise.
So rather than rushing off to find legal assistance, which will be difficult if she cannot tell them exactly what her problem is and she wants them to help her with, would Suzan not do better at this stage to look at the documents she has and clarify any concerns she has in her own mind, rather than speculate wildly and try to protect herself against issues that may never arise? If she is secretly worrying that the wall may be in the wrong place then compare the plan cadastre and the planning permission documents and her own knowledge of where the wall stood. There was a mention earlier that the boundary “seemed to have changed”, this for instance needs confronting and clarifying.
Secondly, hopefully the property is now correctly insured because if the wall has been partly demolished and left in an unstable condition, the last thing she wants is to be held liable for future damage that may be caused by falling debris.

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I have requested assistance from defender of rights and have someone very senior and English speaking helping. So im hoping justice will prevail and trying not to take the doom and destruction outlook quite yet.

Hi Robert,

The police have said that my wall is built 35cm on public property, not to me but to a neighbour who works in Marie. They have said nothing to me by email, letter or word. The woman at Marie who is responsible for communicating on behalf of municipal police has simply replied to state she cannot comment on wall as it is with prosecutor for its height and location. When the wall was built in Spring 2020 lockdown, height was taken into account it is lower than other walls in area, and boundaries were carefully measured, actually by a friend of mine who is an architect. The wall has been standing 2 and a half years and only becomes an issue when I threaten to prosecute the owner of lorry. I have received no official notification of anything other than the email. I now have help from a counsellor but pretty worried. I have done everything in my power to do things correctly, there is no one to check with as in UK where building inspectors avoid this nightmare. Not that those were available in covid

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Hi Sandcastle,

The woman corresponding for municipals, has clearly stated cannot comment on driver as “wall is at prosecutors, for its height and location” I have spoken to neighbour and friend who works in Marie and yes it is all going on. I have now someone intervening on my behalf, but one of most frightening things ever. The wall is not that bad, just cosmetic most of the other walls in road are literally falling to bits. Yes, Im fully insured now and will never ever let that slip again …I am having trouble getting a Juradique policy though can anyone recommend a good one?