British citizen applying for French residence permit AFTER Oct 31st 2019 and BEFORE Dec 31st 2020

Hello forum,

I am a British citizen, and I want to relocate permanently to France in March 2020.

On the French government’s residence permit application website, (https://contacts-demarches.interieur.gouv.fr/brexit/brexit-residence-permit-application/) there are two options:

  • I am a British national who has been living in France since before October 31, 2019
  • I am a citizen of a non-EU/EEE/Swiss Confederation member country and I have a family connection with a British national who has lived in France since before October 31, 2019

I want to move after October 31 2019 , but before Dec 31st 2020 , so I fit into neither of these categories.

Where should Brits in my situation apply for residence permits!? Has the French government just not updated the date on the first option?

Thank you

That particular site appears to be well out of date - how many extensions have there been since then??? France meant well but it was a losing battle and it seems to have long since given up updating all its websites every time there was another delay.
This site is more up to date https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/Le-ministere-de-l-Interieur-se-prepare-au-Brexit/Sejour
Basically as you probably know, you can settle in France up to the end of transition (assuming the WA is ratified before 31 Jan) provided you meet the FoM criteria. You have until 6 months after the end of transition to put in your application, and the arrangements will be announced in due course. It’s possible there will be an online option.

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Thank you for the response. I guessed it was just a matter of being outdated.

I’m itching to get my application in the moment I arrive in France in March, but I’m anxious about using the outdated form and selecting the first option since it basically commits me to a statement that isn’t true.

Is the general consensus among Brits in this situation that the French authorities will eventually announce an updated form?!

The application requires you to prove you’ve been correctly exercising FoM for at least three months, so in fact you can’t apply as soon as you arrrive. If you arrive in March you could maybe put in an application in June. The form won’t change, it’s the same form for all EU ressortissants and Brits who arrive during transition will be treated as EU citizens unless the WA is changed.

Ah, that’s a useful clarification regarding the demonstration of 3 months of legitimate use of FoM.

I went to the more up-to-date link you provided, and made my way to this page:

I notice that the “BREXIT, Request for a residence permit” link on that page takes me to a page which has a slightly different url:

https://contacts-demarches.interieur.gouv.fr/brexit/brexit-demande-titre-sejour/

but which is basically the same page as I linked to originally, with outdated timescales. For e.g. it says “The possession of a residence permit will be compulsory from October 31, 2020”. That’s incorrect now, isn’t it?

Yes - that portal was set up to electronically process applications in the event of no deal, which Frane expected to happen. The procedures for no deal and deal scenarios are slightly different. But hopefully, if and when there has been an orderly exit, they will reconfigure that portal or build a new one.

Many thanks for the clarifications!

Regarding the conditions for legit use of FoM, specifically in relation to being self-sufficient:

I earn a salary from a UK company, and will continue to work for, and be paid by, a UK-based company while living in France and working remotely. (I’m a software developer) I’m hoping this is not technically different in any to earning a salary in France?

Furthermore, if I were to quit this job, what is the amount in savings the French authorities require me to have to quality as “self-sufficient”?

From the horse’s mouth a couple of days ago: All applications have to be made on-line now, nothing sent by post or handed in. The French govt website will be updated after 31/01/2020 with all appropriate info and options.

All applications already in the system will be dealt with asap after 31/01/2020.

No-one should go to the Prefecture unless specifically asked to do so.

Carte d S is the same as Titre d S - (I had explained that this is a bit confusing)

Nothing changes during 2020 except no longer able to vote or stand for election.

re finances: It was interesting to learn that no-one will achieve Naturalization unless they have resources much higher than that for Residency. So my chances are zero for naturalization… Residency will have to do. :wink:

Um.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but yes it is technically entirely different. If you move to France and work here, your employer has to declare you to France (URSSAF) as a French employee, put you on a French contract that complies with the French labour code, and pay social security contributions to France.
You can’t live and work in France and stay on a UK payroll paying PAYE income tax and NICs, unless you’re a posted worker or a cross border worker. If you neither live nor work in the UK you’re not entitled to stay in the NHS or the UK social security system.
I’ll post a link later to the URSSAF guide when I’m back home, unless someone else wants to.

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The intention is to get my employer to pay me into my French bank account (which I’ve just created), rather than going through PAYE, which presumably will cover French social security contributions etc. My company has a few non-UK employees working remotely so I’m hoping it’ll be no different in essence. The only things strictly defined as “UK” would be my nationality, and the location of my company.

I’m happy to sacrifice NHS access etc. I’m early 30s and not falling to pieces yet.

I’d be very grateful to receive a link on the URSSAF guide - thank you!

Your employer should know about this if they have other workers ouside the UK.
It’s the ‘bum’ rule - you are classed as working where your bum is when you do the work. Makes no difference where your employer is or what nationality you are or what currency you are paid into what bank account.

@smw Thanks for the input. I’m looking forward to the EU’s ratification of the WA on Jan 29th to get a bit of precious certainty, and hopefully the website will be updated accordingly.

That’s an important reassurance - thanks. I like the bum rule. Simple - where actually are you when doing the work, basically.

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Yep… they can’t update beforehand. :upside_down_face: We’ve been promised swift amendments where necessary/appropriate.

Here you go I found the link.
I hate doing this on a phone, my fingers are too big !

You need to do this if you continue working for your employer. Working whilst physically in France but not paying social security here would not be regarded as correctly exercising FoM, the rules are clear. (In fact it would be regarded as social security fraud.)

Regarding the actual residence permit that will presumably be issued eventually to people like me, does anybody know the length of validity of this permit? I did read the citizens’ rights section of the WA, and as far as I can tell, it stipulates that the only way to lose residency status (apart from murdering people, etc.) after the end of the transition period is to be absent from France for more than 5 years. If I’m only in France, for, say, 182 days per year, could I lose the permit?

I still need to read about what the various permits are. But my basic question is, does being in France in Dec 2020 really qualify me for a lifetime of FoM in France?

I’ll be back tomorrow morning - thank you SO much for the responses so far.

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Being in France will not be enough. You will have to be a bona fide resident and meet all the conditions of residence.

If you’ve been here for less than 5 years at the time of application you get a temporary permit (usually one year) and you have to renew it. They will check that you are still meeting the conditions.
Once you’ve met the conditions for 5 consecutive years, then you get a 10-year renewable CdS.

Realistically we can’t say what will happen regarding a free trade agreement, and movement of citizens both directions.
The Uk has said they will not stick to every rule like it is now , it may be a negotiation ploy as that is how you negotiate but why would we stick to the same rules ? If we did we are no better off leaving than staying.
There’s a long Riad to travel yet.

Before we joined the EU we had higher standards than most EU countries but who knows if this will now return.