British Passport Renewal

A probable off-piste story but travel related…

During the UK (first?) lockdown, around June 2020 - or was it earlier?, portugal ‘opened up’ - no restrictions on facilities opening, and we got a flight to Porto to see what portugal was like (part of process of choosing a country to ‘exit’ brexit to).

Totally weird and rather beautiful at all points, the taxi driver to Stansted said we were his first fare since lockdown started - 6 months?? The airport was empty, really, it seemed like there were like 20 travellers in the whole airport. They must have all been for our plane, coz that’s how many there were on the plane. Ah, the good old times of lockdown…

Same empty calm at Porto. Then, arriving in the city in the sun, we sat at a bar and watched what seemed like millions of people thronging by… our aparthotel upgraded us from a studio to a 2 bed apartment, we enjoyed all the restaurants, we even met a French couple in the Algarve who had an apartment in portugal!

I think France opened up in 2020 after that too? And all before the first vaccinations in March / April 2021 ?

I remember the first French lockdown well as I was in the UK, and OH was about to join me for us to spend some time visiting family together. Instead I raced back to France on last Eurostar before lockdown at 12h on 17 march 2020 - completely empty train, crossing Paris on empty RER, and then only international trains leaving from an empty Gare de Lyon. Luckily we are near a swiss train route so was able to get close to home. And OH was stopped on way to station and had to persuade police to let him come and get me. No-one quite knew the rules, and we both just had hand written attestations which ended up being enough.

Things opened up briefly May/June, and then the autumn lockdown before vaccinations started before christmas. Weird times.

We arrived on the ferry into Cherbourg on 24/03/20 having spent 18 hours in our cabin isolating and then drove straight to the Var. Is was surreal, no service areas open, no cars on the autoroute. We’d brought a ton of M&S food with us so we just hibernated until the thaw. It was quite fun.

We travelled shortly after you, once the border has reopened. I remember it well as it was the May bank holiday when we left UK… next week will be our three year anniversary here.

We took the shuttle in the early evening, followed by the long drive to the Medoc, sleeping for just a few hours in the car park of an aire d’autoroute on the A10.

We arrived at our current home on the Tuesday morning, just in time to meet the letting agent and sign the contract.

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The EU have kindly replied to my passport query (impressively quickly!) in under a week. My question concerned the validity requirements of non EU passports when entering the Schengen area (see its geographical scope below) eg UK into France, if the holder has a French carte de séjour.

They advise that the non EU passport must have been issued within the last 10 years at the date of entering the Schengen area, AND it should have at least 6 months validity (in case the passport holder plans to spend 90 days in the Schengen area…)

They also say that there are no special rules for Brits holding Withdrawal Agreement cards or (as in my case, are members of an EU family with a CdS)…

I will post their full response below for future reference. For completeness, the Schengen area is as follows…

As an aside, they are at pains to clarify that this isn’t a formal legal opinion from the EU, albeit it’s from an official EU site - I guess it’s more guidance/advice.I wasn’t actually expecting a formal opinion in any event…

I will now definitely renew my own passport (10 years, 9 months) rather earlier than I expected/hoped, but at least I’m forewarned…

Hope this helps clarify the situation…

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Here is the advice from the EU. They have heavily based their response wording on the guidance set out in the Practical Handbook for Border Guards referred to below (p28).

"Dear Sir/Madam,

Please find below the reply to your enquiry. Please note that the advice given by Your Europe Advice is an independent advice and cannot be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission, of any other EU institution or its staff nor will this advice be binding upon the European Commission, any other EU or national institution.

Thank you for contacting Your Europe Advice.

We can confirm that you will need a passport that was issued within the last 10 years when travelling into the EU.

The rules on entry into the Schengen area are contained in the Schengen Border Code Regulation 2016/399.

As a non-EU national wishing to travel into the EU from the UK, when crossing the external border of the Schengen area, you will need a passport which was issued within the previous 10 years (Article 6(a)(ii) of Regulation 2016/399 applies).

In addition, when crossing the external border of the Schengen area, a person holding a non-EU passport must usually have at least six months remaining in term of its period of validity (Article 6(1)(a)(i) of the Schengen Border Code applies) in case a person intends on spending 90 days in the Schengen area.

These rules are further explained in the Practical Handbook for Border Guards at page 28:

the requirement that the travel document must have been issued within the
previous ten years must be fulfilled at the day of entry (but not necessarily during the
stay), provided that its validity extends until the end of the stay plus three months;

The Handbook gives the following example to illustrate how the rules work:

A third country traveller arrives on 21 November 2022 for a 20 days stay in the EU
with a passport issued on 23 November 2012 and valid until 23 March 2023. The
entry condition of Article 6(1), point (a), of the Schengen Borders Code is fulfilled,
since at the day of arrival the issuance date was less than 10 years ago and the
validity extends beyond three months after the intended date of departure.

As a result, this means that, on the date of travel, your passport must have been issued in the last 10 years.
You did not tell us your anticipated travel date nor the date of issue of your passport, so we cannot confirm whether your passport would meet the rules.

Unfortunately, there is no exemption from this rule for anyone even British citizens who are beneficiaries of the Withdrawal agreement or those who are family members of EU citizens.

We trust that the above answers your enquiry.

We remain at your disposal should you require further information or advice on EU rights."

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Interesting read, for those who are travelling within and out of Schengen… makes sense that the Passport won’t expire before one is due to leave whichever country one has entered…

For those of us not budging … and Permanent Resident in France… it will obviously be different.

Very informative George, many thanks for popping the question.

Their response seems to contradict what I was told by the France border person! Don’t suppose you want to check that one out at the French embassy - maybe the border guards have ‘discretion’. :slight_smile:

I’ll do it in 10 years when mine is up for renewal again. Or maybe I’ll have a French one… you never know!

Question for those who’ve done the on-line version of renewal…
At what point of the process does one send-off one’s current Passport… ??

(ie if systems are blocked/taking forever… for how long might one be without one’s current Passport ??)

When we did it you filled in forms online, and send it off straight away. It came back less than two weeks later, but i think it’s now several weeks because of backlogs.

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I did mine a couple of years ago, exactly as @JaneJones said, fill the form in, hit send, pay etc and it tells you where to send it. I don’t think they start the process until they’ve got the old passport, but it’s (usually) very quick after that.

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I thought maybe a WDA card which from memory involved showing a valid passport might negate the need for a passport for re-entry to country of issue. I assume from your reply that if you are French citizen with ID card yours still need to waive your passport to the border as you return home

Yes, it used to be that French people could just use their ID card, but no longer. As a dual national the convention is that I should use my British passport entering and leaving the UK, and my French passport for entering and leaving France.

Look at the headlines in today’s Daily Wail. Explains a certain airline’s stance towards passport dates!

Please don’t encourage traffic to the Daily Heil’s website.

Maybe you can tell us what was said (or cut & paste the text)?

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Here’s a way we can all see it without them earning anything from ad views…

The headline is bad enough, but they go all out batshit-mental in the first couple of paragraphs of the actual article:

In a strongly-worded letter, the Cabinet minister challenged Labour’s leader to respond to the charge that the policy would ‘rig’ future elections. He said Sir Keir was seeking to ‘downgrade the ultimate privilege of British citizenship’ by letting migrants help decide who runs the UK.

Basically to confirm that the date of issue printed in the passport is the one that is taken into account and nothing else. Sorry I don’t know how to cut and paste? as not au fait with computers very much. Yes a rubbish paper I know but I think they all are and its a bit of gossip. The headline was early this morning and about a member of the aristocracy and one of the page’s father from the coronation recently being refused boarding at Stansted by Ryanair over a date in a passport not having enough time left on it. It is still online.

Tim Hanbury, the pillock concerned, is not an aristocrat but possibly gentry by association. His model daughter Rose married the Marquess of Cholmondeley, giving birth to twin sons 3 months later, one of whom was page to the monarch as his father the marquess had been before him.

I am very glad that Hanbury in his ignorance was unable to badger/goad/dominate Ryanair staff into letting him board in spite of rules being applied to others. I wonder if in his incandescent rage he even uttered those reprehensible words, “Do you know who I am?!”

Three cheers for the Ryanair desk staff.

No prize for the nincompoop who leaked this non-event story to the gutter press.

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Oh yes I quite agree with you. Have absolutely no idea who the bloke or his family are only that the boy was a page to Charlie 3. Anyway it was Ryanair who gave the proper info regarding dates/expiry etc on passports and they should know more than some hooray henry.

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Last year we drove down to Barça for a week and it was only when registering for the rental apartment that I realised I’d left my UK passport in the Aveyron. Showed the woman my CdS and that was fine - felt like a real European!

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