Can you transfer an auto/micro entrepreneur business?


(Claire OWEN) #1

I could be about to open a can of worms but here goes.


No1 son has an auto entrepreneur registration in the artisan sector which he started up to earn part time money while studying. Now he no longer does that work and is nearly at the end of his studies. His brother No 2 son needs to do part time work. So can no2 son buy No1 sons small business and what are the registration costs going to be? It seems daft to me that one son will stop trading and the other will start dong the same thing at the same address for the same reason.


Has any one any experience before I contact the Chambre des métiers?


Cheers


(Brian Milne) #2

...and there you have good example of what a mess it is!

Then the next step is changing status. I discussed it at a local office. Since age and health have restricted my ability to travel I mainly do desk based work from home and much of that is now writing, editing, reviewing and a bit of translation. Sure, I still do lots of research using books, articles, websites and data through personal contacts in the field. They just did not want the bother of changing anything and felt that the actual changes are so minimal that it doesn't really matter. That I would still be classified the same was not my actual point, but what their records say that I do.

Mind you, for years I had more or less the same problems in the UK where classifying people is another lottery. I thought it was bad when I first did freelance work in the 1970s and expected it to improve with time. At the end of the last decade before we left nothing had changed except the rules and they were as clear as mud.


(Claire OWEN) #3

The sculptor made me laugh Brian,as OH is an artisan sculptor working in reconstituted marble.

It took 3 attempts to get the right APE number assigned as they first registered him as a monumental stone mason and secondly as working in concrete before finding a number that corresponded to working with marble without being a funeral director.


(Brian Milne) #4

Totally agree. A local stone mason registered as a sculptor but mainly cuts blocks for cornices, lintels, cornerstones and the like for houses is an artist, so liberal profession. A woman who makes wedding dresses and special event wear like ball gowns entirely by hand to order (no machine is used at all) is classified like a commercial dressmaker, so an artisan. So, it is all you say but without any real inspection or controls thus falls apart if we assume that an awful lot of people are falsely classified because of a few misplaced words that describe them.


(Claire OWEN) #5

Definitions are too generic I agree Brian. The staut of Artist Libre and inscriptions the maison des artists also help to add to the confusion, although the maison des artistes do give a cheaper way for people to work in a small way.

To diverge a little, I also have a bug bear with a knowing what the legal definition of Hand Made might be. There has been a change in hand made as far as restaurant food is concerned but none where hand made items are concerned. I sew for a living, designing and making children's clothes, but shy away from using hand made as a tag as I use sewing machines and once many, many years ago got told off at an expo for calling myself hand made. Since the arrival of the AE status I note an increase in fait main and even 100% fait main marked at markets and foires for items that are clearly mass produced findings assembled together, jewellery is a particular problem.


(Brian Milne) #6

Artists, writers and social researchers like the two of us here are profession libérale and actually very difficult for them to slot in sometimes. Worse with taxes because things like copyright fees are tax exempt so not declared whereas strictly speaking as a liberal professional AE they should be for social stoppages. It is also hard to define an artist, so an artisan doing fine woodcarving is either depending on how he or she describe themselves whereas somebody who is a silversmith making craft jewellery is an artisan but a person doing metal work to produce garden ornaments and sculptures (things like those wading bird type things I am sure we have all seen). In the village nearby with a 'creative' community in and around it that discussion has come up in the couple of cafés so often that I believe one or two people switch on 'autoplay' to go through it. There is no absolute logic, it has that feel definitions decided by a committee sitting down and occasionally one of them throwing in 'what about X?'. So, the pigments would be produced by an artisan and the paintings by an artist, so just say the latter...


(Claire OWEN) #7

Only if you want to become an artisan . ;)


(Celia Ford) #8

Thanks Claire, I'd better not start grinding down my own pigment for paintings I might want to sell then! ;)


(Claire OWEN) #9

I believe a writer is profesion liberale.

When I started as an Artisan it was explained to me this way by the Chambre des Metiers;

You have a fruit tree, if you grow and sell the fruit you are in agriculture, if you take the fruit to a shop , the shop keeper is a commercant. If you turn your fruit into jam,pies or create a picture with the fruit peelings that is an artisan . So artisan is basically someone taking raw materials and transforming them into a product through their own labour . Odd explanation but it works for me.


(Celia Ford) #10

While I concur with the responses of others, may I ask what comes under the umbrella of Artesan? For example, is a performer or writer an artesan? Or profession libérale?


(Claire OWEN) #11

It is as I feared, more money spent for nothing, well not exactly nothing but for nothing that is needed.

My researches into this matter have enlightened me that it is impossible in France to sell an enterprise individuelle. This answers the query I have had in the back of my mind for years now. Why do people with good businesses close them down when they retire? It seems you can only sell a business if it is a SARL or similar company I assume an EURL would count as such . Other wise you can only sell your machinery and your shop/building. Good will and client base count for nothing for an individual trader!

No 2 son will have to work out if he is willing to pay just shy of 300€ , I believe it's 280€ for the course around here, to register or if he can find other part time work.

Thank you for your input everyone.


(Laurence Clary) #12

Yes, the cost is about £200, and 75 per cent of the course will be totally irrelevant to him, as it covers all types os businesses and statuses. I did it in December and it was the most boring week of my life! Unfortunately it is compulsory. Pole Emploi apparently cover the cost if you've been registered with them for 6 months or more.


(Helen Laziou Roger) #13

not possible number 2 son will need to register as himself as a micro entrepreneur (what AE is called now) AND you say it's artisanal so he'd be obliged to do the week long course first (at his cost )


(Brian Milne) #14

No, it is the person who is registered as an AE but not because of the activity.


(Rachel Steel) #15

I very much doubt that this can be done!

The registration is personal.

Your son will have to deregister his 'business' and the other son start a new business.