I know this is currently quite a hot topic, with the impending Brexit, but I would like to know if anyone from an EU country has managed to obtain a carte de séjour "UE - séjour permanent" or even submit an application for one?
The reason I ask is that I'm being contacted several times a day by customers enquiring about this and last week I spoke with the service étranger at the préfecture in Alençon on behalf of a British couple and have been told quite categorically that the Orne préfecture will not issue a carte de séjour permanente to European nationals.
This goes against everything I have been led to believe and the information here:
but the lady was absolutely adamant that this does not apply in the Orne (61).
I've said it before and I'll say it again - single Europe, my a*se, it's not even a single France lol.
I have suggested to my clients that they may try through their mairie as, in my opinion, the préfecture is not playing ball.
I am currently putting together a letter to the préfet de l'Orne seeking clarification and would like to be able to cite other préfectures that have recently issued the card to EU nationals.
I appreciate that this may all be a waste of time as, if the UK leaves the EU, we will no longer be EU citizens and will probably be forced to have some sort of carte de séjour, but I have customers who are really panicking.
What I was trying to find was the statement from the french ministry of interior saying that prefectures should issue CdS’s to UK national on request (and with proper justicatif of course). I know some places are being difficult about it.
On the RIFT page on Facebook there are lots of people who have got their CdS and many others who have appointments at their prefècture to submit their dossier. I think the main problem seem to be that-despite official lists-prefecture,as normal,do their own thing, some requiring translations of certificates and documents, other not. They all have different methods of applying, some by post, some make an appointment in line, some you have to turn up and wait your turn.
My understanding was that you could always have one, but before Brexit it really was not necessary.
These Prefectures seem to be a law unto themselves, but they should now understand that it is a way of showing that you have the right to live here.
I think that as it is not compulsory to have one, then they don’t have to give you one.
I can also see they would be reluctant because it is a lot of hoo-ha, they can’t be bothered to do them and especially not for British people who won’t even be ressortissants UE any more so it will be another can of worms to be dealt with later, I expect.
Even if you get a carte de séjour permanent as British EU citizens, they will be obsolete the second the UK is no longer in the EU. So I wouldn’t be too desperate to get one, or worried about not getting one, if I were you.
Well both UK and french ministries are quite positive about us applying for them and have apparently issued a statement saying that we should not be denied them - and it is this statement I am trying to find. Up until now we have not been bothered either way - but if Nigel Lawson is applying then perhaps that’s a hint that we should rethink.
I imagine that there may well be something put in place in due course that will swap a CdS with whatever the post-Brexit equivalent is, and this could help smooth the process.
A lot of people are expecting to be able to exchange a CDS (UE) for what ever British Citizens are required to have after Brexit. It has also been suggested that British Citizens resident in France will be treated quite differently to non EU citizens concerning their right to reside. Having been resident for over five years already gives you rights. It will probably be a choice of jumping through a few hoops before Brexit to get a CdS (UE) that will be exchanged for the new document later or of jumping through similar hoops after Brexit to get the same carte.
I have always been concerned by the posters on forums who state that you must get a CdS now or face the consequences. To my mind that is scaremongering and has probably caused people who have been resident less than five years unnecessary stress.
I’m not overly worried about not getting the Titre de Séjour as it’s now officially styled on the application forms we submitted in April to the Préfecture in St Lo, Manche. Demand there was heavy that they had to turn (British) applicant’s away at the main entrance when we arrived. Security said the waiting area was overcrowded and “Come back tomorrow before 0800”.
We were advised at our local Mairie to apply. And at the local goverment advice centre in town where the forms were printed off for us, and we were given an offer of help in filling them in if that was needed.
Our dossiers were checked quickly at St Lo with a smile and all seemed OK. Reassuring, but of course one never knows what the outcome may be, not even the fonctionnaire who accepted the application. But I take some comfort that we have signalled our wish to remain resident, and have produced a supportive dossier of evidence to support it. Better than twiddling ones thumbs and hoping haplessly for the best.
Others will obviously make up their own minds on the slender prognostications that are "anyone’s bet’ at the murky present, based on the ‘facts’ as they see them.
As mentioned elsewhere, I shall be tempted by a deportation order to dig my heels in and say" Bah Humbug" when the gendarmerie close in.
Thanks, Bill. It wouldn’t be natural not to have a few concerns about our future, as we had made up our minds to stay here until the end. My wife was born in Africa and has no desire to go back there after fifty years in Northern Europe, and her/our children who have spent most their lives in UK. She has a soft spot for UK, but much prefers the pace of life and French culture to the English.
I don’t think this part of NW France is keen to lose its British immigrant residents, most of whom contribute what they can to the local economy and support civic and cultural activities too. As others on SF report, many resident Brits have been here a long time, and don’t stand out from the community at large. But we shall see…
I agree with you Véronique, I am not rushing out to get one. I will wait and see if it’s needed, if so then I will take action as and when !
As David has said there has been scaremongering that has caused a lot of uneccessary stress to relative newcomers.
Does anyone really think that the French, Spanish, Germans et al are going to forceably remove anyone who has bought a house here or any other European country and has contributed to the system ?
Having said that I do feel that anyone considering a move from the UK to Europe in the near future should really do their research into what will now be involved. I have seen on some other sites people being advised to make the move now and quickly. Think long and hard as to what is involved before you take that leap !
Having lived here full time since 2005, I recently obtained my Carte de Sejour Permanent from the Prefecture in La Roche-sur-Yon, Vendee without any trouble at all. The staff were polite and helpful, provided a list of documents to be produced specific to my circumstances, and the only down side was having to make 3 personal appearances at the Prefecture ( a 130km round trip), but then I do live right on the very edge of the Department.
My main reason for obtaining one was in respect of returning into France from trips outside of the EU after March of next year. I understand that legislation has already been set up by Brussels that will require non EU citizens to either have a visa to enter the EU, or to have a previously obtained online ‘ETIAS’ Visa Waiver Authorisation similar to the ‘ESTA’ that is needed by non visa holders for the USA these days.
Once Brexit happens, and the UK is no longer an EU country, then I will have to use the Non EU citizens lane at Orly or Charles de Gaulle airports when the ‘Parafes’ automated high speed lane is not working. So in the same way that my 10 year US Visa gets me into the USA without needing an ‘ESTA’, I’m hoping that my Carte de Sejour specifying that I have permanent residency rights will get me back into France without needing an EU Visa or ‘ETIAS’.
There is also the question of how airline and ferry companies will treat the documentary situation after March next year. At present, an airline will not let you board a flight to the USA without first proving that you have a US Visa or a US ESTA, simply because they will have to bring you back again at their own expense if you are not admitted to the USA upon arrival.
So when the EU introduces their ETIAS system, I can then see the ferry operators and airlines introducing a similar requirement in respect of travel from the UK back into the EU after the UK leaves the EU.
All in all I think it is just easier to obtain the Carte de Sejour Permanente now if one has more than 5 years residency.
It’s free, saves having to carry your Passport around as ID, and could well save a lot of hassle when trying to re-enter France from outside the EU after March of next year.
Well, Tim, I am not sure that “crashing out” is not still an option, however remote or imminent, it is being talked about by commentators as a possibility, surely? The whole schemozzle has been chewed over so much for so long it is an issue scarcely recognisable or comprehensible to my everyday intelligence, and I reckon many others’
What has disappointed me is that the EU has not responded to the UK’s suggestion regarding EU citizens right to live in the UK with something positive/definite for Brits living in the EU, all we’ve heard is that they are preparing for a ‘no deal’ scenario.