We have been recommended a gardener who would look after things for us on a more regular basis whilst we are away. The rub is that we will need to employ him using the mechanism of CESU (cheque emploi). This is only a ‘rub’ in that is it possible for us to do so?
Currently, as most of you know, we live in the UK and do not pay tax in France other than the property taxes. Can we set up a CESU account to pay our gardener?
Any and all advice would be most welcome as this is completely new to us - I am reading the CESU website but, as yet, cannot find anything related to the ‘employer’ living outside of France.
CESU is operated by URSSAF the french social security service and I would think you are not entitled to use the service unless you are french resident and affiliated with a french SS number because there are tax credits from the service and you probably do not pay or are even tax registered. Also you would be described as “luxury” having a holiday home and as such, considered to pay privately yourselves. Sorry but having been a CESU worker, it was only for those in France. Forgot to mention that you would be liable for pension and health payments for anyone employed under the scheme and again, if not a resident etc…
I’m not sure TPEE was an option available when we were “employing” somebody to mow our lawns for several years when we were living in the UK. We contacted URSSAF who had no issues whatsoever with us using CESU, and were even quite helpful. .
The system is very simple and clever. In essence for the 40€ an hour we paid the gardener, CESU automatically grosses it up by 29€ (rates at the time) to account for the social security. It obviously makes hiring somebody this way rather expensive and we wouldn’t have done it if there were Micro-entrepreneurs available who would legitimately account for their own social security etc.The other downside is that the French tax credit for the “salary” paid to the gardener was pretty useless for UK tax residents The plus of CESU, besides obviously complying with the law, is that the “employee” is insured automatically so if they injure themselves on your property, they’re covered by the state.
Final point - our limited experience is that gardeners etc seem quite happy with CESU (why wouldn’t they be if their social security is being paid by somebody else) and expected it…One gardener told us proudly he had 8 “employers”!
I think you can use it as CESU doesn’t discriminate between particuliers, but it’s just you couldn’t get the benefits. TPEE is specifically for foreigners to use service à la personne
i want also my employer to declare me but i don’t have any information on how they will do it, my employer is living in Dubai and the other one is in UK, so maybe you can help me with this? thanks in advance.
Hi Elmer…it is all done through CESU online. Each of your employers will have to create their own CESU account, which is fortunately very simple. You will probably also need to create one yourself as employee. I’d send them the links to CESU so they they can understand the situation and perhaps even do some projections of what it costs them. It’s very user friendly, especially by French standards (!), providing they can understand French. I suspect (though haven’t checked) they will need French bank accounts to make payments of your social security contributions to the administration.
I’ve also looked at the links previously posted for TPEE but I’m not entirely clear whether this is simply a rebranded niche version of CESU for foreign employers (eg bringing their staff with them to France) or whether it’s fundamentally different. Personally I suspect ‘all roads lead to CESU’ so I would start with that approach.
I worked CESU for several years as guardian of a huge holiday home nearby to me. The owner had an account with URSSAF for this and in turn, they sent me official page slips every month and it was counted in my french pension allocation eventually. However…I think there is a limit for the number of hours you can work and be paid per month on this scheme, you need to check, I only worked 2 hours per week and at the most, four hours per week during the holidays when they came. Whatever you do, don’t do any work for them unless its above board and you are covered social charge-wise or there could be a great deal of trouble.
I would have thought so (though can’t find immediately the details on any limits of time worked). CESU is specifically aimed at those doing work in or around somebody’s home, obviously including gardening.
All that really needs to happen is that your employers set up their CESU accounts, (which includes them giving their banking details, & permissions to withdraw amounts from the accounts). They declare your earnings, CESU does the social security calculations and then a few days later withdraws them from the employer accounts. There are extra features like CESU+ which will also pay you directly if you and the employer agree (that’s probably the only thing why you’d need a CESU account). If your employer pays you directly themselves then I doubt you would need a CESU account yourself. CESU produces all the necessary payslips as Shiba says, and annual summary reports etc that may be needed. The account also has model standard contracts but I recall they are merely ‘highly recommended’ for some work, rather than required. Worth checking. Hope this helps.
I did not have my own account with URSSAF persé because the lady who paid me direct by cheque end of every month did all the paperwork with URSSAF who had my details obviously and sent pay slips to me direct along with various emails about information etc. This in turn was transmitted direct to the Impôts by URSSAF and appeared on my tax form every year as the total earned so you can’t outdo them by thinking its cash in hand. If the employer bypasses the system and pays direct, you have no pension deductions that count at the end of your working life as well as other social charges. I would still check about any sort of hour limit per month though.
The only references I can find to hours worked are:-
You are not supposed to work for more than 48-50 hours a week
If you work more than 3 hours a week for 4 consecutive weeks, or 4+ consecutive weeks regardless of hours, then you are supposed to have a written contract.
I’m sure there was previously (and maybe still is) a limit on the number of hours work that CESU can be used for but I can’t find any references to that, so perhaps it has been changed.
When I referred earlier to employers paying you directly, that is entirely possible and permitted when using CESU. Obviously through CESU, they will have also paid your social charges directly to URSAAF, which ensures your contributions record (pension, unemployment insurance etc) fully reflects these payments.
That was how mine worked, no paperwork for me at all and no contract of employment so I did not have to give notice but I did anyway that I was moving and they gave me a thousand euro leaving bonus because I had always gone above and beyond for them in their absence with artisans, alarm callouts and their disgusting family who never left without leaving a mess and rotting food.
We’re about to get into tis: the devis mentio ns it.
The gardener seemed to think we need to register with URSSAF, but from reading this thread I don’t think that’s the case (unless anyone wishes to correct me ).
