Climate change or not - a different perspective

General Discussion
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Thought I’d start another thread on this - and look at ‘climate’; from a different perspective - without the arguments about being a ‘believer’ or a ‘sceptic’.

Whether the climate is changing or not - and for whatever reason - look at this in a different way.

‘If’ - and it’s a big ‘if’ the climate is indeed changing -

what’s wrong with that ?

Look at the vast swathes of frozen land at the moment. (Weirdly most of the earth’s land mass is concentrated in the northern hemisphere isn’t it ?)

Now - if the climate ‘is’ changing - won’t all those frozen wastes, the arctic tundra, alaska, greenland (so called because it was ‘green’ at one point !)

would become available for human use - for new cities, new areas of agriculture to produce food, new energy sources from drilling for oil and gas…

What’s so wrong about that ? The areas near the tropics that are at present dessicated and dry will expand - that’s a given, if we accept that climate change ‘is’ happening. So we will have increased populations needing new land.
Look at all the new land that could become available - what’s wrong with that idea ?

(And yes over-population is a huge problem - and the ever increasing demand for water, food etc is a disaster. (If I was the earth I’d regard mankind as a parasite to be got rid of !!!)

Have I set off a ‘bomb’ in our civilised dinner party conversation ? !!!

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I won’t be following yet another climate change thread, sorry.

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Unfortunately it doesn’t work like that.

Read this info from the UN:

Hotter temperatures

As greenhouse gas concentrations rise, so does the global surface temperature. The last decade, 2015-2024, is the warmest on record. Since the 1980s, each decade has been warmer than the previous one. Nearly all land areas are seeing more hot days and heat waves. Higher temperatures increase heat-related illnesses and make working outdoors more difficult. Wildfires start more easily and spread more rapidly when conditions are hotter. Temperatures in the Arctic have warmed at least twice as fast as the global average.

More severe storms

Destructive storms have become more intense and more frequent in many regions. As temperatures rise, more moisture evaporates. This exacerbates extreme rainfall and flooding, causing more destructive storms. The frequency and extent of tropical storms is also affected by ocean warming. Cyclones, hurricanes, and typhoons feed on warm waters at the ocean surface. Such storms often destroy homes and communities, causing deaths and huge economic losses.

Increased drought

Climate change is changing water availability, making it scarcer in more regions. Global warming exacerbates shortages in water-stressed regions. It also leads to a higher risk of agricultural droughts affecting crops and ecological droughts making ecosystems more vulnerable. Droughts can also stir destructive sand and dust storms that can move billions of tons of sand across continents. Deserts are expanding, reducing land for growing food. Many people now face the threat of not having enough water on a regular basis.

A warming, rising ocean

The ocean soaks up most of the heat from global warming. The rate at which the ocean is warming strongly increased over the past two decades, across all depths of the ocean. As the ocean warms, its volume increases since water expands as it gets warmer. Melting ice sheets also cause sea levels to rise, threatening coastal and island communities. In addition, the ocean absorbs carbon dioxide, making it more acidic and endangering marine life and coral reefs.

Loss of species

Climate change poses risks to the survival of species on land and in the ocean. These risks increase as temperatures climb. Exacerbated by climate change, the world is losing species at a rate 1,000 times greater than at any other time in recorded human history. One million species are at risk of becoming extinct within the next few decades. Forest fires, extreme weather, and invasive pests and diseases are among many threats related to climate change. Some species will be able to relocate and survive, but others will not.

Not enough food

Changes in the climate and increases in extreme weather events are among the reasons behind a global rise in hunger and poor nutrition. Fisheries, crops, and livestock may be destroyed or become less productive. With the ocean becoming more acidic, marine resources that feed billions of people are at risk. Changes in snow and ice cover in many Arctic regions have disrupted food supplies from herding, hunting, and fishing. Heat stress can diminish water and grasslands for grazing, causing declining crop yields and affecting livestock.

More health risks

Climate change is a major threat to people’s health. Climate impacts are already harming health, through air pollution, disease, extreme weather events, forced displacement, pressures on mental health, and increased hunger and poor nutrition in places where people cannot grow or find sufficient food. Every year, environmental factors take the lives of around 13 million people. Changing weather patterns are expanding diseases, and extreme weather events increase deaths and make it difficult for health care systems to keep up.

Poverty and displacement

Climate change increases the factors that put and keep people in poverty. Floods may sweep away urban slums, destroying homes and livelihoods. Heat can make it difficult to work in outdoor jobs. Water scarcity may affect crops. In 2024, 45.8 million people were displaced due to weather-related disasters. Most displacements happen in countries that are most vulnerable and least ready to adapt to the impacts of climate change.

Based on various UN sources

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Fine - but it is ‘not’ a climate change debate as such - just looking at the possible problem from a different perspective - an open minded look at ‘what if’s.’ - as in ‘if’ it is happening - and it turns out there is nothing we can do to change it - how to cope and what are the potential possibilities for making use of the change.
Just thought it might stimulate open-minded inventive ideas…that’s all !!!
To shut down a thread because ‘you’re not interested’ - is such a shame.

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Fine - but those reports from the UN are not looking at the potential that the greening of at present frozen lands would give mankind. That’s what I mean about looking at the problem from a different perspective. The potential of large, new land masses - that’s all I would like people to think about.

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The earth would become a marine planet, with much smaller land areas crammed with people. But probably healthy ones with a diet of fish and algae. Which sounds ok, except that most will probably be some form of slaves to the land owners (ie those rich enough to have been able to annex mountain peaks and so on).

Not a bomb, just a bit boring. Reminds me of student dinner parties where people liked dancing on top of pins. Pointless circular debates.

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The millions of deaths. However you write “over-population is a huge problem” so…

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Ice sheets reflect the suns rays reducing global heating. If these melt the heating increases.

The permafrost traps in tons of carbon dioxide. Melting this will contribute to global warming.

The melted icecaps would dump gallons of fresh water in the oceans disrupting sea life and increasing sea levels causing flooding and disrupting ocean currents such as the Gulf Stream with unpredictable results.

You may be able to grow tomatoes in Greenland at some stage but it won’t be long before the planet adjust to the new normal at the cost of human civilisation.

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No, it wasn’t. It was named by Erik the Red around 982 CE, at which time the climate was similar to today.

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Erik was the first Viking to understand “imaginative marketing”.

Wouldn’t have got much interest if he’d called it “Frozen Hellscape”.

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They called Labrador Vinland didn’t they? Ah those great Newfoundland wines, mmmmmm

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Nothing at all, humanity will be wiped out but that’s hardly a big problem - in the long run as my old college bursar said we are all dead - the earth itself will carry on spinning and other species will evolve. The unfortunate bit is coming between now and then, when climate change will push even more conflict disease and hardship.

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With the greatest of respect I’m finding these repeated comments really tiresome now. You can easily start a discussion and see who bites without this sort of needling. A good few of your comments seem to include some sort of ‘lets see how this goes down’ type phrase and it just looks like you’re trying to be provocative, perhaps what the youngsters call trolling, when that’s likely not the case.

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I think it’s very likely to be the case :wink:

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I am so very sorry if any of my comments come across as ‘trolling’.
They are definitely not meant that way - at all. If I have offended then I apologise - but offense is never intended.
As for conversation ‘bomb’ - that was a tongue in cheek comment - as in - ‘think about things differently’’ - or in modern parlance ‘outside the box’ - or ‘blue sky thinking’.
It’s hurtful to be accused of trolling - in no way am I a ‘troll’ - I just think some ideas should be challenged - what’s wrong with that ?
Why aren’t my views as valid as anyone else’s ? Just because they don’t ‘conform’ doesn’t mean they’re not valid; people have laughed at new ideas before now - only to be proved wrong.
I’m obviously not wanted on here…

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I think you may be taking comments a bit too personally. If you look through threads you’ll see quite a bit of robust challenging of people’s views, but unless they are personal attacks then all views welcome.

I don’t see any sense of people saying your views aren’t as valid as anyone else’s.

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I am happy to be guided by experts on the subject who pretty well all agree that the climate is changing - just look at sea temperatures and air temperatures over the past hundred years.

Changing climate will cause major issues for humanity and the current level of people moving away from areas which are no longer liveable - we are starting to see it happen. Current levels of people seeking to live elsewhere will dramatically increase.

I would be delighted for my children and future grandchildren if the climate was not already changing.

Be very wary of politicians who receive massive donations from organisations who would like to deny anything is changing such as Trump.

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Research suggests there is a very strong correlation between fast rising and high CO2 levels in the atmosphere (the sort of levels that we are approaching now) and mass extinction events in the last 450 My. During these events, between 10% and 60% of all species on Earth became extinct within a short (in evolutionary terms) period of time. The current rate of species extinction is many times what would be expected, and what it was in the recent past, and so a mass extinction event may already be in it’s early stages. Such a mass extinction event wouldn’t be good news for the human race.

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Can I recommend the ignore function? It’s bliss.

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I’m sure it is, luckily I did no such thing but rather specifically said you weren’t, but your comments could lead some to think you were.

I’m always reminded of noted conman L Ron Hubbard, who infamously said on the first day opening his fake “science of mental health” Dianetics foundation “Let’s sell these people a piece of blue sky”. Even back in 1950 blue sky thinking was a concept for charlatans to exploit the masses.

Has it actually been confirmed that amongst the primary funders of Reform UK are the petrochemical industry and the countries that benefit most from them? It makes sense and seems to be generally accepted but I’ve always been wary until I actually saw evidence that it’s not an ‘acceptable truth’ rather than actual truth.

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