Here we go again, old fosse just condemned, 4 years to to fix it
But its going to be E8k at least even if we have the actual space for it, which I doubt.
What happens if we ignore them? Fine?
Thx
The guy who emptied our tank (first time in 25 years), recommended any yoghurt that had been left in the sun, so had gone "off". I had previously used Eparcyl (expensive) or Tarax.
Sounds nice, despite fosse problems. Where are you exactly?
Peter
Our problem with sand filter, as I understand it, is finding a large enough flat area that also has no trees nearby. Our house was constructed as mini chateau, it even has the remains of a tower, and is therefore not on flat arable land but on a rocky hill with clear views of approaching trouble.
Unfortunately the original builders did not figure on defending against French bureaucracy!
Thanks Glen
We do not live there permanently so I believe a micro system is not allowed? We have land but very steep, no level areas and mostly rock after the first foot of soil. I think a new system is quite a challenge
E10000. Wish I had that lying about. Could sell, lose all the profit to tax (what profit left after allowing the buyer 10000 off) and basically be back to square one after ten years of renovation, blood sweat and tears.
Not great options.
yes we had wild talk of mains drainage at one point. It was a bee in a former president's bonnet, like fencing off swimming pools. Of course the sheer logistic challenge and cost soon put it back down the bottom of the agenda.
Gordon – yes, I did see it and many thanks – I was just suffering a moment of overwhelm. I would have pointed it out to a buyer in any case, the whole house is in need of a facelift and so will be priced accordingly. In this area no-one expects to pay the asking price! Just a bit sad for us that we will have made no profit in the sale price after 10 years of living here...
Celia,
Not sure if you saw my reply to an earlier post.
I`m a chartered surveyor & have been doing pre purchase surveys in south west France for the last 9 years.
When you sell your house you are now required to have a report on your fosse which was done in the last 3 years. This will make it clear to the buyer (the Notaire will point it out - the estate agent probably won`t but if the buyer employs a surveyor he should!) that the fosse needs modernising/replacing etc.
The report, like the other diagnostics you have to do, is ensuring there are no hidden defects - so the buyer knows what he/she is buying into.
New owners must bring their fosse up to standard within the first year of their ownership.
They will obviously negotiate your asking price accordingly.
There are literally dozens and dozens of uncompliant houses in our village and of course there is always a negotiation on all house prices is there not? Condition, and that includes drainage, is always an issue and if you want a perfect house buy a new one. I have bought two houses in France over the years, one was £2000 and the other was £20000. On the latter I spent £80k in improvements and drainage (mains connection) cost me about £5000. A nice thing is that my next door house will eventually have to pay me quite a bit of money to drain through my land when he wants his house up to standard, and that will defray my own drainage costs.
Well you can sell but the buyer, who will be in a situation whereby he or she has to get a new fosse installed sharpish and with all the cash, mess and fuss that entails, will haggle hard over money.
Basically you have to set your price and then expect to be knocked down by around E8000 by the buyer
All this puts the fear of God into me. We have to sell our house this year at whatever price. We've not had a check, but I'm reasonable confident that our fosse will not comply having been installed in the mid 70s. It runs into our own land which is bordered by a ditch.
The original owner/builder visited and told us to stop putting down eparcyl as it would kill off the fosse – just skimming the graisse off would be adequate!
As I say, we have to sell and an earlier commenter said that we won't be allowed to because of the state of our fosse, but there's no way we can afford to install a new one, quite simply don't have the funds. Would a grant cover it – we're both in our 60s?
Anyone care to buy a 70s farmhouse on its own small hill near the Med with 2 Ha? !
Well of course in the past the only solution to waste was to throw it on the land or bury it. Not a very high tech solution but the human race seems to have got by. Animals do it.
Obviously not a solution for the city but out in the vast French countryside a fosse is a step up from burying it in a hole and even the old fosses like ours, while not producing water I'd care to drink, do break down the waste enough to give it a head start in the process of natural breakdown that takes care of all waste, animal and human.
Certainly I feel that in the 500 years our house has stood it has not created any bio hazard nor will it ever. If it could be proved that we were actually creating a hazard, I'd listen but it seems the law is one that assumes hazard.
Anyway, point is unless I have E9000 fall into my lap before 2018 it's unlikely the fosse will be fixed.
Peter,
You can sell your house with a defective fosse.
As a surveyor doing pre purchase surveys I regularly come across houses where the owners have ignored the report that their fosse is condemned.
This obviously puts the seller at a disadvantage because any buyer worth his salt will negotiate the price of a new fosse off the asking price.
An owner who receives a report condemning his fosse has 4 years to put it right.
When selling you have to produce a report on the fosse done within the last 3 years.
A new owner has to bring it up to scratch in his first year of ownership.
Oh we have the fosse pumped out regularly, as it has been since time began. Quite frankly as it's a second home it's only occupied for a total of less than 3 months a year so the fosse fills very slowly.
We cannot sell the house anyway, by the time the French Gov takes its tax on the profit it's not worth it. Id rather will it to someone.
Even an enforcement order seems a bit unlikely, imagine serving these on our neighbours who are all very old and penniless. Not good for the mayor's reelection hopes!
As we all say, the French love passing laws but once passed they seem less interested in enforcing them.
Hi Nick
I have been thru this process and yes 8K is about right. There are many possible solutions if you do not have enough space but for that you need to get expert advice, though some DIY place have excellent brochures but failing that try the Internet or ask the company that did the survey what they propose. Do not forget that they, the survey company, have no financial interest in who does the work save that they are legally required to approve any work done.
What happens if you do nothing?
i) I do not know if you will get fined, but I am fairly certain you will ultimately get an enforcement order as the fact that your existing fosse is condemned has been noted by the organisation responsible, by your mairie and maybe logged in Paris where the central records about houses are kept. (Not sure about the last bit but prudent to assume)
ii) You cannot sell your house.
iii) You will avoid at some time an over flowing fosse with all the associated problems that will ensue.
Peter S
Incredible as it may seem with the great mass of bureaucrats and civil servants on the public payroll, there simply aren't enough 'inspectors' to pursue all the laws that keep getting made. It seems most people if they bother at all manage to get exemptions from the local mairie.
Our fosse was also condemned when we bought, and we were 'advised' that as the mains sewage was being laid through the village we MUST connect to it. Which we have done but also having to pay for the pipes across our land which I suppose is fair enough, but also having to pay for a pump up to the main road on public land, which is suspect surely?
Our French next-door-neighbour - a bit lower on the slope than us, simply said the French equivalent of 'get stuffed' and still has his old system in place, and nothing has happened to him. The Maire has no intention of creating a war not of his own making, and as others have noted seems to be the whim of some Minister trying to justify his role.
As a side issue the same applies to this business of only being allowed to attend and sell your own stuff (not a professional) at a Puce only twice a year! Your own stuff? Heard of recycling? Better to dump the stuff in the woods! Again there aren't enough inspectors to police the dam' law, so many organisers just say 'forget it'. Theoretically breaking yet another law.
As they say very French, at least at political levels.
We eat the rabbits here!
Yeah. When I installed the system here I was told by the locals to bung a chicken in it. I assume they meant a dead un but never asked! As for keeping it "ticking over" I think I manage that myself quite nicely thank you:-)
Septifoss or Eparcyl. Its quite expensive stuff but it keeps things brewing especially if someone has put something down they shouldnt, like chemicals or anything that stops organic breakdown.
Its not a lot different to what you put on a compost heap, Garotta!
We had a non conformity on our fosse three years ago, which was to be expected as it has never worked from day one of being installed ( long story) Despite several attempts to get in contact with SPANC by us and our deputy mairie, they do not respond … We arent go to do anything short term.