Why do you think you are paying Tax twice … John ???
Can you flesh out the question about "Foreign Government…negatively impacting… " please… not clear where you are coming from with this…
But will they care? I met a guy last year in the SW who’s been here 12 years, car still on UK plates but untaxed and uninsured, says he’s never done a tax return but has an S1 and carte vitale apparently (?!). Says he has no intention of going back to the UK and doesn 't take holidays. So he basically doesn’t intend to do anything… I think it will be a long time before anyone notices.
Mmm… there are already moves afoot to identify visitors/holidaymakers and permanent-folk within Communes across France.
Once Brexit hits… the difference between folk who conform and those who do not will be much more visible. Already, my neighbours are discussing how Brit folk… resident and non-residents… will be “touched” by Brexit. If the chap insists on continuing as he is now… he will be found and jumped on from a great height.
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Not all income is covered by dual taxation agreements Stella. In fact the DTAs I’ve read are pretty short documents. From 2019 tax year onwards it will just be BAU though with the taxation at source element. It’s 2018 that’s the problem and as I say I haven’t fully got my head around it but I will over the next few months. I’ve just put my mind to it and done a little spreadsheet but I can’t get it to format here, so here’s a textual version which may or may not be clear 
Say WW income taxed in France is 100 of which 20 is also taxed abroad.
Say French tax with normal allowances is 25 and foreign tax (no allowances) is 10.
The foreign impots offset the French tax (5) against the foreign tax and one pays 5 abroad.
WW income taxed in France is 100 of which 20 is also taxed abroad.
French tax for 2018 is 0 and foreign tax is 10.
The foreign impots offset the French tax (0) against the foreign tax and one pays 10 abroad.
So, ones “tax free” year in France sees an increase in foreign tax.
QED 
I’d have a moral dilemma as to whether to report the guy or not. Instinctively I’m not the sort of person who would do that but he seems so off the wall he’s a danger on the road. He’s just taking the proverbial.
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John…Surely, if someone pays tax in a foreign country… it makes not a heap of difference what France does… that foreign country is going to gain the same amount of tax… 
ie: Income received from abroad and taxed at source abroad…
subsequently that Income is Declared (WWIncome) in France… France says, no more tax due… you’ve already paid enough according to “our” sums… 
Of course, if no Treaty exists… yes, then folk might/could/will pay again whatever France reckons is their due… well worth sorting out the finances before it gets out of hand…
I’m confused. It sounds as if you expect France to refund you some of the tax you paid to HMRC but that’s not how it works!
If foreign tax is 10 then that’s what you pay.
Even if you’d have paid less tax in France, you don’t get any back.
The way double taxation works is that you always end up paying the higher of the two tax levels. If tax would be higher higher in the country where you live, you pay the extra. If tax would be lower in the country where you live, no adjustment is made.
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This is the real horror… so often such folk don’t maintain the vehicle either… real danger to one and all… 
As regards the folks who are here beneath the radar, I suspect that life will just steadily become more difficult every time they try to deal with anything admin related. Their French bank, if they have one, will at some point ask to see their carte de séjour; their carte vitale, if they have one, will at some point be frozen until they produce a carte de séjour. They’ll carry on paying top whack property taxes, they’ll never be able to claim any assistance or benefits, and if they try they risk drawing attention to their situation and being expelled. Their choice. In a decade or so they will have died out naturally or gone back to the UK, and they won’t be replaced, one of the very few positives to come out of Brexit.
I don’t have sympathy for them but I do pity them, what a way to live your life.
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I’m not paying any tax to HMRC Stella, ever, ever again 
and I don’t “expect” the French impots to do anything. I’ve lived in enough countries to understand how dual taxation agreements work but this is once off situation. My point is that in 2017 the French tax in this simplified example was 25 and total WW tax was 30. In 2018, despite having been given a 25 tax credit by the French, one only gets a 20 benefit because 5 is clawed back by the foreign impots.
Well said Anna - it’s great to sleep at night… 
I guess one of the main things that will scupper them is the exchange of information on bank accounts - i.e. the requirement for all banks to establish and disclose the tax residency of its account holders to the relevant tax authorities.
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Oh John… you’ve got me so fuddled now…
I think I need a siesta… 
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Nope, I still don’t understand, sorry.
I thought in your eariler example you said 25 was the tax you were paying to France on income taxable in France. But now you seem to be saying it’s a tax credit that France gives to you.
I’m as confused as Stella, if not more.
Sorry, maybe it’s a bit difficult to communicate it in text.
The credit arises because that is the mechanism that the impots are using to give everyone a “tax free” 2018.
It would be easier to explain with a spreadsheet but I think my first post show the issue very well. Some of the credit given for 2018 will be sucked up by the foreign tax authorities. The French tax authorities issue a credit equal to one’s 2018 tax liability to zero the tax payable in 2018 and facilitate the move to PAYE and prevent personal cashflow issues (as I highlighted they were going to do some months ago here). So the French give me a tax credit of 25 but since I cannot offset any tax against the foreign liability it actually goes up. Therefore reducing the benefit of the French credit. Obviously my overall WW tax liability for the year reduces dramatically, but not as much as it should.
OK I almost see what you’re getting at now.
I’m not convinced it’s correct though because your French tax is based on your RFR, which won’t change because you still have to declare everything. So your tax calculation will be the same as normall, but simply, the French liability will be refunded. I don’t see how that will affect the figures in any way?
Why would the foreign tax office be offsetting any French tax? As a non resident, all you declare to them is the income that’s taxable in their country. Why are they concerned with your French tax affairs or your WWW income?
Very good question Anna. I actually visited them in December and left as confused (perhaps more so) than I went in. In my case this affects income from a fund which the French see as a pension (thus taxable in France) but the Foreign (Irish) authorities see as an investment (despite being called an “approved Retirement Fund”) The redefinition from pension to investment only took place in December 2016 so there’s still confusion all round. The French tax authorities have been very helpful, the Irish ones less so.
I managed to square the circle between the two tax authorities for tax year 2017 but, one way or the other, I’m think I’m going to end up with a dent in my “tax free” 2018.
Aaaaahhhh - now I get it. John - you should have explained right at the start, that this is a very, very particular problem caused simply because in your unique situation, one government/tax department in Ireland has one interpretation of your ‘assets’ - and the French counterparts regard your ‘assets’ differently… Now I’d suggest you need to get to the Eucopean Court of Human Rights on this - and every Irish and French government, legal, and tax department on your way up !!!
You’re in a bit of a ‘one off’ situation - but maybe a French tax adviser might be able to help somhow.
Bit similar to how the French regard ‘winnings’ on UK Premium Bonds - not taxable in UK - but here ?
And the huge differences between CGT rates in UK and here in France.
So it is ‘interpretation’ of assets that’s your difficulty…that’s a tough one. And the only winner will be - guess what - France…!!!
I hope that that type of crook will be whacked hard, soon. I loathe them, their dishonest smart-alec attitude really rubs me up the wrong way. I pretend I can’t speak English when I come across them.
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Solvit might be a more appropriate first step SOLVIT – EU rights problem solving when working, living or doing business in another EU country - European Commission and if they can’t intercede, they’ll advise on the next step.
I don’t see an issue with that? It’s normal for each country’s tax-free schemes to only be tax free to its own tax residents. Same with ISAs. It’s an incentive mechanism the state uses to influence domestic household spending and saving habits. France has no interest in encouraging French taxpayers to invest in UK government bonds; it has its own savings incentive mechanisms, and anyone tax resident in France can use those.
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