If that comment relates to Corbyn, then fair enough, but if you are referring to Hatton then he is more than just a Socialist.
it was Corbyn
1 Like
Corbyn may be a socialist but heâs not a leader which is what the Labour party and the country is crying out for.
Totally agree.
You are judged by the company you keep.
His support for the leadership in Venezuela.
We do not expect our politicians to support governments who are starving their people to death, denying them medical care and ruining a strong economy just to prove a political point.
And now we have people being poisoned on our streets by the secret service of Russia.
The problem is that the Leader of the Opposition is one of them.
Youve just described this Tory government.
3 Likes
The point I was making is that perception of where the centre ground lies is a matter of opinion. Rees Mogg probably thinks he is perfectly reasonable moderate centrist, but there are plenty of us who donât. He is a free market âextremistâ with some really dodgy views about all manner of things. Yet he holds sway over UK politics and the conservative party.
Talking about supporting dodgy regimes, why on earth is the UK still selling arms to Saudi Arabia? Whilst the population in Yemen is being starved to death.
The natural inclination in UK political discourse is to brand anyone remotely left of centre as a communist. Please bear with me though, I am not talking about Hatton who I have now looked up, wonât do the Labour party any favours and who comes across as self-aggrandizing.
I am talking about a virulent dislike of socialism, calling Ed Miliband âRed Edâ when really it is about wanting fair wages and good working conditions for everyone. UK politics has successfully split people into strivers and skivers rather than thinking of the good of the population as a whole. If Ed Miliband had got in, in 2015 we would not be in this ridiculous situation we are in now, where a small âextremistâ faction of the conservative party has managed to poison the national discourse with Brexit.
So how shall we spin that? Jolly Brexiteering or extreme separatists? Either way the UK is now spending billions and billions on it and this perjury may go on for years to come.
But I know you are in no way a Brexiteer. What you want is a new centre party.
The issue with this (and this could apply equally to Ed Miliband) is you get politicians who are so bland that they donât really appear to be offering anything. In a time that peoplesâ working conditions are getting worse, whole areas of the UK are depressed, with a healthcare service in crisis, is it that surprising that people will vote for whatever party that offers genuine change.
I totally believe in the EU project, although it does need reform. I donât think Lexit is the answer. I also donât think Corbyn is providing effective opposition to this dreadful government. However I do believe strongly in a left of centre manifesto that offers change. Before anyone starts shouting âmagic money treeâ at me, what about all the billions spent preparing for Brexit? Really I support the Green Party, but I am not going make this post even longer by talking about proportional representation.
The world is in environmental and political crisis, we urgently need to act. This will inevitably require policies that are not considered centre ground. Stifling debate with cries of extremism (on different sides) is of course possible. What then?
Stalemate whilst the situation worsensâŚ
7 Likes
Well said. Unfortunately those of us that try to see the whole picture are usually the target of all sides. My right wing nephew recently called me very left wing, my brother who is left wing found this hilarious as to him i am only slightly left of centre. As you see it depends where your own position starts to how you view other opinions.
3 Likes
Also many people dont understand real socialism which in its most basic form is just giving everone the same rights and opportunities eg. good education, decent housing and health care, proper infrastructure, access to employment and the law.
When people call socialists who have money hypocrites but not conservatives for having the same then it is indeed the complainants who are the hypocrites.
2 Likes
As evidenced by Hatton making money. Cant stand the man but his money is no dirtier than any made by Theresa Mayâs husband.
1 Like
I think increasingly we are & have been seeing a rise in the âIâm okay, thatâs what mattersâ mentalityâŚthis isnât a new thing.
But there comes a point where it stops being just about money, & it starts being about people.
Some members of society will always need perhaps more care &/ or support than others. The duty of society is take care of those less fortunate & not âpenaliseâ them.
Thatâs neither left or right wingâŚthatâs being a fucking human being.
I know people that post religious passages on other social media, proclaiming the words & wonders of God; yet theyâd step over a person sleeping rough on the street.
Looking at the state of the world now; looking at how we regard each othersâ âworthâ in material & financial terms; thereâs too much money in politics driving too many decisions made to benefit the so-called â1%â
Iâm no great fan of the Human race; to the point where, if we donât change our outlook, behaviour, our attitudes towards others, then we deserve to be the next species to become extinct.
4 Likes
Exactly.
Three Conservative politicians have now moved to the independent group. Itâs getting interesting
3 Likes
I love a bit of drama!
The breakaway group have more in parliament than the DUP , and already as many as the Lib Demâs. TheTories are remainers Definitely drama
2 Likes
I used to consider myself a staunch Conservative supporter ever since witnessing the attempted ârevolutionâ of the Trades Unions in the 1970âs and the complete ineffectiveness (or support?) of the then Labour government (I would lean toward the former).
The policies of the 1979 Conservative government seemed, to me at the time, effective in trying to reward hard work and endeavour. Dont try and flame me for being a Thatcher supporter but, if you read some of the books produced by industry leaders from the time (particularly Sir John Eganâs on Jaguar) then you would get an insight into how disruptive and all-powerful the Unions had become to the extent that they controlled the âaverage working manâsâ employment prospects to the 'nâth degree. I agree that, during the late 60âs and 70âs, Management of the large companies had become completely inept at their jobs but it was clear that the Unions had their own agenda - and it wasnt the betterment of the working man!
30 years later, I still believe that to incentivise folk to work and thereby âbetterâ themselves is far, far better that just dishing out handouts. I equally believe that governments should not tax hard work and enterprise to such an extent that it will extinguish that endeavour - that would only lead to stagnation and, eventually, closed businesses and losses of jobs.
A âcentreâ ground has to be followed where businesses are encouraged to prosper but that, should they receive government help to do so, then something has to be given back to Society. For me, tax breaks and favourable terms given, constitute government help. Should an enterprise be successful on its own merits and hard work then I see no reason for the government of the day to come knocking on its door for handouts.
I have absolutely no issue with governments providing a means of support to those that genuinely need it - at whatever time in their lives - but I am certainly not in favour of my taxes being used to bail out those that plainly cant be bothered. I also am vehemently against a government that proposes as policy to effectively take into their control a business that is successful on the grounds that they perceive that the owners of that business are making too much money. I do agree, however, that utilities and essential services that are needed for the health and security of the State should be under the control of government - but should be run in a businesslike manner as opposed to being an utter drain on the public purse. They should not be run for private profit but for State profit - which can be then channeled into the Social sector.
So, in the end, I now lean toward what could be seen as a just left of centre position (?) and would most likely support this Independent Group were it to form into a Party.
In no way can I support a party that harbours a rabid individual like Rees-Mogg who is only out for himself and no-one else or one that give succor to the likes of Hatton - and now George Galloway wants to rejoin - where they are hell-bent on destroying any enterprise or endeavour that they can get their grubby little hands on (the politics of envy).
The politics of the UK has someway to go yet before it sorts itself out but I doubt it will remain a two-horse race for much longer.
2 Likes
I see Hatton as extreme Left with Corbyn a bit right of that, DHâs re-admittance after three decades in the wilderness shows where Labour is now heading. Is Hatton relevant though at 71, lets hope not.
Iâm not sure you should turn the clock back regarding re-nationalising the railways, it would surely make sense simply to invest more in the rail network infrastructure alone rather take back the rail companies themselves.
As a priority I would like to see a fully funded NHS, adequate social services for the ageing population, enough police to fight crime, enough money for education and training and power/funding given to local authorities to build council houses. To pay for this income tax will have to rise for all, corporation tax should go back up to 20%, HMRC should have more staff to tackle tax evasion and in addition all tax avoidance loopholes should be closed. The benefit system will also have to be overhauled as it is simply not fit for purpose at the moment.
I donât see the above being in any manifesto at the next GE so itâs just wishful thinking on my part.
2 Likes
Extremism in either direction isnât really whatâs neededâŚor desirable
3 Likes