Do handymen need insurance?


(Anna Watson) #21

OK, this is how it would work in the UK: you would apply to HMRC, tell them what you want to do and apply for an A1 portable health document. If issued, this would then mean that you continue paying social security contributions to the UK and the UK would continue to cover your healthcare. This would make you legal to work in France and if challenged, the French authorities will accept the A1.
The process should be similar in Germany since this is an EU arramgement, so I guess you’ll know who to apply, it will be whatever authority you deal with for tax / social security.

AFAIK that’s the only legal way to do it. Freedom of movement makes a clear distinction between being a visitor in a country and being a worker, and you don’t have the right to earn money when you’re there as a visitor. The A1 document would give you posted worker status. Also, technically you’re only allowed to stay as a visitor in another EU state for 3 months maximum, so having an A1 would solve this problem too.

Having said all that it still hasn’t entirely answered your question because I’m not sure whether you would have to register yourself in France. I know that posted workers sent by their employer have to be registered on the SIPSI database but I don’t think this applies if you’re self employed but I’m not 100% sure. Maybe Germany can advise on this.

(John Noble) #22

Hi Anna,

Thanks very much for the detailed Reply and the time and effort it took you. I ahve anothr couple of Questions pleased don‘t feel obliged to answer them, but if you have the time I would be very greatful.

Do you know if there is any way to apply for an A1 while I am already here in France?

How long do you have to leave France for before visiting again?

Would I have to have an address before applying?

Best wishes


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(Anna Watson) #23

Hi John
You would need to check all this; I initially came to France on an A1 but it was a long time ago so things might have changed slightly, and I got mine from the UK so Germany might do things a bit differently. Plus, my memory has big holes in it.

But as I recall - the rules for getting an A1/S1 as a self employed person require that your business has been established in your home state for a certain minimum period which might be a year or a couple of years; and that it is ongoing ie you haven’t closed it and aren’t planning to, you intend to come back home and resume work there after your period in another EU state; and that you’re intending to carry out essentially the same activity in the state you will be visiting.

So based on that:

since you’re supposed to be currently working self employed in Germany I think it would be better if you applied from Germany. Also, the UK at least took several months to process it. I seem to remember that I applied well before I moved but at the time when I moved, I didn’t know if the application had been accepted or not so I was a bit in no man’s land, I didn’t know how to proceed. Fortunately I only had to wait about a month before it arrived.

Not sure what you mean by that. A1s are normally issued for one year. If you wanted to stay beyond that you would have to apply again when it expires. But they designed to give temporary cover, basically to avoid everyone the hassle of swapping social security systems for a short stay in another EU state and then swapping back at the end of the period. If Germany thinks your stay in France is starting to look permanent, they’ll refused to keep covering you and tell you to join the French system.

As above, ideally you would apply from your German address while you’re still working in Germany. I can’t remember if the UK asked for an address in the host country but if so I think it would be purely for communication purposes. I don’t think your home country actually keeps tabs on whereabouts in the host country you are, they just need to know which country you are in and how long you are there for.

Hope this helps but as I say, do check it with Germany to avoid wasting time/getting a nasty shock

Edit - just found this page - there are a couple of Q&A about self employed workers. Looks like very good advice and basically it is as I thought. It does say you should apply from your home country.

(John Noble) #24

Hello Anne,
Here are a couple of clips that I read on that website, From what I understand, I can work in France without a permit as I am self-employed, neither do I need to register after 3 months because I am an EU Citizen. Am I reading this correctly or have I missed something?

"As an EU national you generally don’t need a work permit to work anywhere in the EU.

Work permits are never required for self-employed people in the EU."

"If you are an EU citizen, you don’t need to register after 3 months in France . All EU citizens have the right to live and settle in France - as long as they are not a threat to public order and are one of the following:

  • employed or self-employed
  • not in work
  • students
  • family members of an EU citizen

As an EU citizen, you are not required to hold a residence or work permit . However, you can get a residence permit if you wish."

(Anna Watson) #25

Yep, correct on both.
EU citizens don’t need work permits within the EU, that’s enshrined in the freedom of movement directive.
As regards registering, the directive leaves it up to each country to decide on formalities. Some EU countries such as Spain do require EU incomers to register within 90 days and get a residence document, but there’s no requirement to do this in France.
(When it says “you can get a residence permit if you wish”, that should be read with a hollow laugh in some cases. Many Brits in France are trying to get one in preparation for Brexit and some préfectures including mine are refusing point blank to issue them, on the grounds that we don’t need them.)

Obviously, being an EU citizen doesn’t exempt you from the national legislation of the country you’re living/working in. The objective of the FoM directive is for each EU state to treat all EU citizens the same as it treats its own nationals, i.e. any restrictions and obligations as regards working arrangements that apply to the country’s residents, also apply to EU incomers, but they can’t impose additional requirements. So basically, as long as an EU citizen is complying with the FoM directive and with the laws of the country they’re in, they’re doing everything they need to do.