Does having an online private teacher make you an employer?

Legal Advice
#1

Hi, I am a foreign student living in France. Recently, I started taking French lesson with a prof via Skype. I paid for the 10 hours of classes, and we have done a few. She says that now I am an employer to her and sent me this link : https://www.superprof.fr/blog/cheque-emploi-service-universel/. This site does say hiring someone to do work makes you an employer if the classes are at home (un employer particulier). Our classes are online, and she doesn’t come to my house. So, I don’t think it fits perfectly to my situation, but I can’t find a site that says that online classes don’t make you an employer.

So that I don’t have to declare, she says another student can declare the hours for me, and all I have to do is when we do the classes, I agree to say that the classes are at my house. I think saying that would actually make me an employer according to French law and also this is a fraud.

Is there a site or somewhere that says that hiring someone to give me online classes doesn’t make me an employer? It’s hard to believe that every student learning online would declare their professor as their employees.

It was 3h/week, and we have no contract. The professor didn’t say anything about declaring when we started the course. When I talked to Superprof, the site where I found the teacher, they said the declaration is advised, but I needed to talk to URSSAF directly.
I don’t know if I should let it go and just get half of the refund back, or if I have grounds to report the teacher to the site.

Thank you for reading.

#2

Could it be this arrangement?

The Universal Service Employment Check (CESU) was set up to allow individuals to easily employ a person to help them in their daily lives: cleaning lady, home help, gardener, etc.

It allows for reduced hiring and employment formalities.

I think I saw this quoted in another thread about home schooling on SF…

#3

Hi Graham, Thank you for your reply. Yes, CESU is for workers working at the employer’s house. My private teacher is working from her home via Skype.

So, I don’t think this applies to me. However, it doesn’t say that the online teachers are not my employee neither. So, I’m looking for a website or something that says that.

Thanks,

#4

same meat, different gravy and a consequence of covid lock down perhaps? Would the same apply if you used a computer technician who logged into your system to fix something remotely. I guess only the fisc can answer that question with any authority…

#5

I offer no authority, but I see it this way. If I trust a teacher enough to be willing to pay her for her services, then I must trust her integrity in declaring her income from them to the tax office.

It seems to follow from that that she will be required to declare the source of that income, because it is me that pays her to supply them.

To do that she needs me to declare that I do in fact employ her services, and she doesn’t have to come personally to my home to deliver the goods, any more than IKEA has to deliver a strawberry-coloured Drågdribhyttanülsipet in person that I paid for on my debit card online.

Simples? :thinking::hugs::smiley:

#6

I’m in the process of setting up as a language teacher and I’m going to be doing it as a microenterprise, I think that is what most people do although I have seen some mention that they will accept the cheques. Will be interesting to hear what you find out.

#7

surely this teacher has other Skype pupils… ??? thus is an Employee of several different Employers… if one follows her drift…

sounds very odd. I have a friend who works for/with several people, over Skype… they are her clients… she is not their employee…

#8

So, her explanation is that she usually has students pay her by cash so that she doesn’t have to declare… (Yes… shady) But, she is the one who set up to be paid online, and didn’t tell me about getting paid in cash.

they are her clients
Exactly! I want to prove this to Superprof, so that the prof wont take advantage of other students.

#9

I’ve messaged you…

#10

I don’t think she is being straightforward with you. In England and Wales, the relationship would not be you as the employer, not least because you cannot control how the tutor works. It might, possibly but I would be astonished, be different in France but there are none of the usual factors present which would make her anything other than self-employed. It’s quite clearly different from the CESU arrangement, as someone else (maybe you!) suggested.

The fact that she is proposing you lie about the relationship and her relationship with someone else - and, in the process, incriminate yourself - is a clear indication that she is dishonest.

My suggestion would be that you tell her
you don’t agree with her analysis of the relationship
but you will happily speak to the tax office (albeit explaining the precise nature of the arrangement and how it works) if she will provide you with her name, address, any other contact details that occur to you, tax reference, SIRET etc

If you don’t get a satisfactory response, I would definitely report her to the site.

Depending on how likely you think you’ll get your money back, maybe later rather than sooner. :wink:

1 Like
#11

What he said :arrow_heading_up:

#12

Hi Stevie,
Thanks for your message.

BlockquoteI t’s quite clearly different from the CESU arrangement, as someone else (maybe you!) suggested.

It wasn’t meeee! It’s the prof who showed me this site to convince me that I was an employer. I agree that it’s completely different, but if she had said, “It’s the same for online classes”, I had no proof to disprove her.

My suggestion would be that you tell her
you don’t agree with her analysis of the relationship
but you will happily speak to the tax office (albeit explaining the precise nature of the arrangement and how it works) if she will provide you with her name, address, any other contact details that occur to you, tax reference, SIRET etc

This is what I should have done! Thank you! I’ll do it if something similar happens again. Ever since I told her, “I need to think about the consequences of lying on the site”, she has become very hostile towards me. So, if I suggest this now, she would give some bullshit answer.

1 Like
#13

Is it simply that you have agreed at sometime to pay by Cheque d’Emploi? If so you would pay her her income but still be responsible for the social charges involved. This would all be carried out through the official channels and even the tax people.

#14

Is it simply that you have agreed at sometime to pay by Cheque d’Emploi?

No, she billed me online via site and I paid her that way.

#15

I really can’t see how this makes one an employer…

If an accountant bills you… you pay the bill… you are their client…

Is this so very different… ??? just wondering…

you have no contract ??? or do you ???

#16

I really can’t see how this makes one an employer…

Me neither! Im trying to convince the same thing to SuperProf.

you have no contract ??? or do you ???

I have no contract with her. But apparently, contract is not necessary for work less than 8h/week or less than 4 weeks : (Source) https://www.cesu.urssaf.fr/info/accueil/gerer-la-relation-de-travail/contrat-de-travail/contrat-travail-obligatoire.html

#17

so what are the Rules of Engagement…

Have you clicked on some button on the site which makes you an Employer… and if it is NOT clear… would make the Site in the wrong…

sorry… but this sounds simply too bizarre…

over and out for tonight…

#18

If you pay someone with a CdE you are also responsible for paying the ‘employers’ bits as well. My guess it’s to do with that.

#19

yes, but we don’t know if that is how he is paying… either way it should have been made clear at the outset (in my view)… but who knows… :wink:

#20

I’m not sure what CdE is, but the prof billed me online via site and I paid her using my credit card.