Same as us, we started winding down in 2019 and sold in 2023. We explained the LMNP ceilings to our Dutch buyers but no idea how they decided to run the business. I think we got out just in time.
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There could be nuanced hair splitting here me fears. A can of worms even.
My wife was an AE for a number of years but didnāt build up a French pension pot (her income would have been too low to have any/few qualifying semestres) Moreover, from memory, you can (or could) elect to contribute or no - and she elected not too. But I suppose someone, somewhere might say that she was āin the systemā and could have qualified had she not elected otherwiseā¦ and had the income, and hence the pension pot.
Me, no such situation. Iāve never done a paid days work since arriving in France (man of idle leisure, me) So I will qualify for an S1 come the day. Which my wife can presumably piggy-back on worse come to worse.
Ifs and buts and maybes. No wonder we need legal types to chart the way and argue the toss as and when,
Sounds quite clear to me that no pension pot =ok for S1.
Would be my reading too but Iām no legal eagle so wouldnāt suggest it as fact.
The issue with eligibility for an S1 is not if you worked in France but rather if you completed any trimestres. If you never earned enough to build any trimestres, then you have no claim to a French pension, therefore France is not your competant state.
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Thatās the kind of nuance I was thinking of, Where the legal eagles make their coin. The devilās in the words, and how they are interpreted!
My wife, as mentioned above, has actually completed a few trimestres (I think I erroneously said semestres) Only a few though where her earnings were higher. I have a feeling though that she had opted out of a pension so was not paying those/that social charge(s). I donāt think you can do that now, or maybe Iām mistaken, Iām very hazy on as it was 15 odd years ago.
Point is, itās the kind of near hair splitting that can confuse. Have you an income (French or otherwise)? Have you trimestres? Have you got pension pot? Which question is the pertinent one? And then of course itās not a French body asking it (for the provision of an S1) Itās the NHS overseas bods and theyāll not ask in those terms (trimestres) I reckon itād be more along the lines of āare you in receipt of a French pension?ā or perhaps more broadly āhave you acquired the rightsā etc.
I must have a look for myself, see what the wording is. Out of interest.
Only if you have built up a pension in a country recognised by the social security coordination agreement. Which luckily includes the UK (a last minute win in the Withdrawal Agreement).
You can find legal texts if you search for EU social security coordination, they are very dull.
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Marko, has your wife logged into info.retraite, just to see if thereās any mention of entitlement to a pension?
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Yes, itās how we know there were trimestres recorded. Looking again just now, itās 4 with 51 points - whatever they are (do they mean prizes?) The pension estimation tool, which weāve not used before, just hangs so, weāre none the wiser. Iāll try again later. She has no intention of claiming a French pension, even if one were available. I imagine itād be tiny anyway, certainly not worth giiving up an S1 for.
info.retraite is working for me on my pc this morning (maybe it didnāt like my tablet last night - whatever) and gives some results I donāt understand tbh - and frankly makes me doubt it.
It does show a pension being available - ā¬38pm āĆge du taux plein automatiqueā in 2027. Iām guessing this estimate is assuming continued contributions. Or is this estimate based on what has already been built up to date? Thatād be some pension for the amount my wife has paid in cotisations on her AE earnings.
The registered trimestres have increased to 7 - have the points āboughtā an additional 3?? Iāve no idea.
Then in the estimate text it says āIl vous reste 160 trimestres Ć obtenir pour bĆ©nĆ©ficier dāune retraite Ć taux pleinā Does that then mean that the estimate is somewhat moot? Is that ā¬38pm quoted taux plein (full pension?) or not? I donāt understand the terminology here, and how itās being used.
My wife has recently closed her AE now so no further rights will be built up but for ā¬38 a month (not a huge sum, no, buy way more than I thought, given what sheās āpaid inā) one might have a calculation/decision to make on whether to take it or an S1.
Iād like to understand this so thanks in advance for any pointers.
Edit: yes, looking more closely at the estimate, it is making assumptions about continued contributions as there are projections for later dates that assume additional qualifying trimestres.
From my experience as I understood trimestres, yes it might forcast a pension when only a handful of timestres have been completed but a pension only kicks in when you have accumulated 40.
For me I fell 1 short of the magic number but was able to top it up to 40 with my UK years.
The result was I have now been getting a french oension for a number of years and when my UK pension started at age 66 I still had enough years to get a full pension.
I couldnt get an SI as France was my competent state but now back in rhe UK, the NHS has welcomed me with open arms and I have 2 state pensions.
I must say that the hoops to jump through in getting my French pension were not easy and it is something I did not expect to get.
I gave 10 hard years of my working life to France and they have rewarded me for my services.
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I asked AI to reverse engineer the calculation to derive the average annual income for a pension of ā¬38pm (& 7 qualifying trimestres etc). It came back with a figure of ā¬22,400. I wish! No way has my wife averaged that! AI calculates a pension of around ā¬3.40pm (based on my wifeās back-of-fag-packet earnings etc) THAT would be WAY more in line with my expectations
From my reading/scanning, it can also kick at in age 67. Not at full rate but a 50% eligibility none-the-less. Itās the taux plein automatique thingy I mentioned I think.
Just to qualify, my reference to 40 is trimestres, not years
