Electric cars


(John Withall) #181

Cannot argue with that :smiley:
The Peugeot version of the volt should be announced soon, that like the Hyundai and Kia are more conventional looking. Too many cars these days look like Matchbox hotwheels kids played with in the 70’s


(stella wood) #182

I notice Credit Agricole are offering favourable terms for folk seeking to buy a hybrid or electric car…


(John Withall) #183

Please tell us more


(stella wood) #184

I’m a customer with CA and there is an advert on their banking web site…

" Decouvrez le Prêt Vert Auto"… 1.99% TAEG fixe

sorry the advert keeps coming and going… but folk could easily ask at their Branch…


(John Scully) #185

(John Withall) #186

People love to knock and especially Americans who are just circling over head like vultures because tesla have filed lots of patents and if they can false him to go bust by consumer assassination they can raid his patents such are the rules in the USA.

The fact he has brought EV motoring to the world in a way no main stream OEM has is forgotten. Latest news is the EU marques are not far behind now and the Hyundai Kona has just been shown as covering 510 km (316m) for a fraction of the price,

Why did the Tesla going from Brighton to Edinburgh stop so often to recharge? It didn’t need to stop until just short of Durham, is the rag trying to make EV’s look bad? Well you won’t hold back EV’s for the mainstream, most of whom will charge at home cheaply for the majority of their motoring. Of course new charging stations will be built and solid state fast charging batteries will also be mainstream within a couple of years.

Interestingly the mainstream ICE manufacturers after years of lying and faking emission results are now making up figures to show their cars worse than they actually are!!! Simply because then they can claim to have brought them down by the required amount in order to pass the next round of emission tests! You couldn’t make it up.


(John Withall) #187

In the UK, plans to allow EV’s to use bus lanes to encourage EV take up.

What would really encourage EV take up? from the few of us here it seems more fast charging points might be the real soother to charging anxiety.
Oh I love the BS that the UK is a world leader in EV’s, that’s a feckin laugh!!


(Paul Flinders) #188

I’m not sure access to bus lanes would be the deal maker for me - not least because I do not often find myself looking at an empty bus lane wishing that I could drive along it.

I’m still in the ICE camp - EV’s don’t quite have the range, definitely don’t have the convenience and are not cheaper to own than a modern infernal combustion engined vehicle.

Note I said own, not run - take the Hyundai Kona which came up recently - it almost has the range but has an 8.5k premium over the petrol model even with the government subsidy.

With petrol at £6 a gallon and assuming 40mpg (not unreasonable for a modern ICE) that pays for 57k miles - about 6 years driving for the average motorist.

Which is about the length of time the average motorist keeps a new vehicle, so no payback unless you are prepared to hang onto one for more than 6 years.


(John Withall) #189

That’s the camp I am in as well Paul, trying to reconcile the extra capital cost now that I don’t do as many miles as I used to.

Have to look at servicing cost also. No exhausts, air filters, oil, oil filters, plugs, injectors, cam belts etc etc and regen braking saves that end of things, The Kona test showed regen to be really good at recharging the battery rather than making nasty dust.

Why do we change cars at 6 years, because the ICE is wearing out and maybe turning unreliable and servicing cost are likely to rise. That goes out the window with EV, it’s a new dawn. (partly why i think purchase price is higher to protect manufacturers) Kia 7 year waranty!

Hanging on to an EV will be the greenest part!


(Paul Flinders) #190

The evidence is that we are hanging onto cars longer anyway - the 6 years was in 2015 up from 4 years in 2000 or so - rust protection is better, overall manufacturing standards are better and modern cars have a 10 year/100,000 mile design lifetime.

Which probably just about offsets depreciation which is higher for EVs.

Ultimately it is a complex equation - for more and more people an EV does make sense and that percentage will increase over time. Along the way I think that there are still problems to be solved but give it 10-15 years and I think you will be hard pressed to justify buying a fossil-fuel driven car for personal transportation and by 2040 you won’t be able to if the government’s plan goes to schedule.


(John Withall) #191

That’s a debatable point, 1st gen small batteries were expected to be worth almost zero. However this has proven not to be case. When the car is scrapped the battery packs can and are re used as power walls etc that do not require fast charge and drain.


(David Martin) #192

(Paul Flinders) #193

While the reviewer claims to have met the range I note that he stopped for a charge having been panicked by an inaccurate range readout so it is impossible to reliably tell, plus it sounds like a hell of a journey - 45mph on the M3?!?.

Besides, although the I-Pace certainly looks interesting, whether I like it or not I can’t afford to splash more than £60k on a car.


(stella wood) #194

I’m following this thread with great interest… but I def lost my cool reading about the “no air-con” bit needed to save the battery… ooops… :sweat::sweat::sweat:


(Mark Robbins) #195

Just wondering if any manufacturers have considered a battery/fuel cell hybrid. Battery for the propulsion, small hydrogen tank and fuel cell for the lights, a/c etc


(stella wood) #196

Anyone got one of these… ??


(John Withall) #197

Ah journalists…
I will wait for a non journalist road test that is coming soon. I posted about the Hyundai Kona test by a non journalist and owner of a tesla. at 90KPH he got 310m 500KM and recons the Kona to be one of the most efficient vehicles he’s tried, more than his Tesla. The gauges are GOM, guess O meters! I Pace is a big heavy vehicle and they had to almost revert to hypermling speed just to make the Jag get there, not good!


(John Withall) #198

Mark, many of the manufacturers are doing this, Toyota. who I believe have got it wrong, certainly for London and other cities are retaining the engine + Battery like the Prius but on Hydrogen.

Hyundai and Kia (they share tech) are using hydrogen via a fuel cell arrangement that make electricity to run the motor(s) + Battery for short range.

Long range lorries are using hydrogen but the biggest issue id the supply chain for refueling, Norway has some UK zero


(John Withall) #199

Formula E news, the old series batteries are not being used next season, they have been tested and found to be in perfect working order despite their hard life so are going to be 2nd life elsewhere.

The new batteries for next season will have twice the charge density meaning no car change halfway through the event (can’t call it a race yet) Solid state batteries perhaps? big jump in tech though, all good.


(Paul Flinders) #200

56mph is hardly motorway cruising speed is it?

I don’t mind these idealised, “I got 450 miles out of my EV by finding a really long downhill journey” figures as long as they are recognised for what they are - heroic but ultimately unrealistic attempts to wring the last yard out of the available charge.

I’m not at all anti EV, in fact I think that we are in the phase where the technology is maturing rapidly and we will fairly quickly see ranges of 350 miles+ which should cover 99.99% of anybody’s daily journey as well as improving the charging infrastructure (which, right now, probably can’t cope with more than a few percentage points increased market penetration).

One thing - can’t remember if it was brought up here - is that to charge overnight you need off road parking and that isn’t available to a significant percentage of the population. How do you charge your EV when you live in a block of flats? (possibly the answer will be charging posts along the street but we don’t have that currently).

Fuel cell based vehicles are interesting as they potentially offer fast refuelling, liquid hydrogen is a bit tricky to store and handle though (but nowhere near as much fun as liquid helium).