We are planning a move to France in May. We will still keep our UK home and live in it for a couple-few months a year. We are both employed by UK companies and working from home or overseas for a week at a time from time to time. We would like to carry on paying taxes etc in UK to make it easier for employer and ourselves. Looking through HMRC website I think we will still qualify to be UK tax residents as will still work min 31days in UK for UK company and probably spend more than 90 days in UK. If we feel move will be permanent we would move our financial affairs to France but as we are not 100% committed we would like to avoid it for at least the first 6 months. Do you guys think that this is ok?
We are not British nationals. We have a EU passports so can live in France. We just not sure if it will be for good so want to do a 6months trial. As said we are working for UK companies and will just be working from in France not for French customers or anything like that.
How do you plan to work from France as UK employees? I see several potential hurdles, given Brexit, as you will need a work visa, and the choice of the correct working visa type will be the determining factor.
I’m sure there are already threads about this…
As far as France is concerned, basically, where you sit (France) to do your work… is where you declare your earning/income and where you pay tax and social charges… I think it’s something like that…
Sorry, but asking a question like this on an English expat site in the middle of Brexshit without further details doesn’t help with getting sensible responses. Drip feeding relevant info will not help your cause either.
Hi Graham - correct I should have disclosed our full status. I was not aware this site is for only English Ex pats. Seen posts from People from all over the world
Stella - what about if its only for few months - that would be really problematic for anyone who comes to France and than leaves after few months.
Alex - As mentioned we are EU passport holders so we do not need visa to be in France or work in France. Only implication here is we will be working for UK company and working for their UK/worldiwe customers as we do now but instead of doing that 12 months/year from UK house we want to do it from both France and UK but keep UK tax residents status rather than France (we clearly do not want to pay taxes in both countries and as far as I am aware UK have agreement with France to avoid double taxation (I do not think this will be affected by Brexit).
A bit more complex. In the 6-9monts I would be travelling to UK for full week of work (probably 4-6times) plus 3-6months fully in UK. If I follow HMRC website I would qualify to be UK Tax resident but want to make sure France will be ok with that - as you suggest probably best to ask on French govt website (hope they do have some info in english )
As said. As soon as we decide we want to spend more time in France than in UK we will move our financial affairs to France Probably at the end of 2021-22 UK fiscal year
Hi Graham, my understanding is that this site is intended to be for English speaking immigrants in France from wherever in the World they originate whether that be the UK, the US, Australia, Canada etc etc.
I also think you are falling into the French trap of saying English when you mean British
Take care
Izzy x
British from the UK for now …but probably English when Nicola S weaves her web in 2022…there will be tears from some jubilation from others, and it will make the Brexit split seem trivial!
If you are EU nationals then you have freedom of movement to live and work where you wish within the EU. So find to come to France
The issue is working out where you are fiscally resident. This can be complicated as the UK and France don’t have quite the same rules. So you are probably right that as long as you spend enough days in UK and have a centre of interests there you will qualify. So from HMRCs perspective you remain tax resident there.
I can’t remember off the top of my head what the French rules say in these circumstances. As there can be a conflict which might put limits on how long you can be in France.
You might also need advice on the position about working here., as France doesn’t do digital nomads. And you can only be attached to the social security scheme of one country. Which means you have to make a decision about this which will then govern how you organise your life.
Probably easiest would be to stay UK resident.t and tax resident, and stay within NHS and just take out travel insurance for when you are here. But that might mean you have to limit your lisits here to under 183 days.
Or become french resident etc etc and get your employer to post you here and pay the NI equivalent here…
Sorry not being very clear if o one else pops up I add some links tomorrow.
Tax is complicated. Based on the pre Brexit rules whether the French authorities consider you tax resident or not is based an several tests, some quite convoluted, for example your centre of economic interest. But the simplest one is if you are in France for more than 180 days in any one tax year or 270 days in any two years the French authorities will consider you tax resident.
Your UK employer cannot just pay you in France, it’s more complicated than that and without following the rules they would be breaking the law. And the rules are about to change.
So, I guess my point is that your EU citizenship gives you the right to work and live in France but not necessarily for a non French company.
Complicated, isn’t it
IMO you need to run you plans past you employer’s HR and tax departments before embarking on your adventure.
But I’m older now and for the sake of no hassle I tend to do things by the book but at least make yourselves aware of the risks and pitfalls.
My wife and I are employed by my UK company. We are legally resident in France, but have dual tax residency. Basically, our wages are subject to UK tax and NI in the normal way, and we have to do UK tax returns - and we also have to do tax returns in France! We pay social contributions and tax in France, but not on income already subjected to UK NI or tax.
My guess is as long as your legal residency in France is secured by your EU citizenships there won’t be a legal problem with tax - but there will I’m sure be many issues around tax-efficiency, access to health services, etc, on which you will need expert advice - we have an accountancy firm that has offices in both the UK and France and specialises in such issues.
Hi Marcin, yes, I see that my answer was posted just before you posted yours about your respective nationalities, thanks for clarifying. Your question has been debated in similar threads on this site already, I believe, and relates to the dichotomy between France’s and other countries’ approaches to:
where your working seat is considered established ;
where you’re considered establish for tax liabilities ;
how long you spend in any one country.
France doesn’t like, nor are any of its systems really set up to deal with, keyboard/telepone nomads. Where there are exceptions under particular job sectors, these are covered in specific legislature (e.g. maritime workers). Taxation should be a simple matter of just continuing to declare your revenues to HMRC, however your length of stay in the UK will come into play in how the French authorities consider the seat of your tax obligations.
As regards social contributions, if you only spending a relatively limited period of time per year physically in the UK, then surely the country where you are most resident will be owed its dues under its corresponding social contributions schemes ?
All I can say is that many have tried to game the French system of tax residency and seat for social contributions, and in the cases I’ve heard about personally, all have failed, and the French state has taken primacy over tax obligations. I suppose it is not really surprising that we don’t get to hear about the one’s who win (if indeed, there are any), as that tends to be the preserve of specialist lawyers.
but at least make yourselves aware of the risks and pitfalls.