It is desirable that correspondents to this forum topic realise the wider picture. There are 59,000 British pensioners in France totally or largely economically dependent on the UK. There are 450,000 in the EU beyond the UK similarly dependent. Larger numbers have family, social or other economic links.
All Britons depend on the treaty agreements between the UK and the EU and/or the resident State. If the resident population in Britain cuts the tie between the UK and EU (in any referendum) it will be quite unpleasant. Many of us would be forced to leave France for economic reasons.
I recognise the point some make that you are very much also or largely or indeed entirely dependent on the French system. All of us are affected by French Laws because we live in France. I would agree that it makes sense to also be included in the suffrage for the National Assembly - This is an EU issue. There are Millions of people in Europe resident in one State but with links to another State. The issue grows yearly . The inflow of State pensioners last year from Britain to France increased by over 6%.
The political system of Representation across Europe has to change. Viviane Reding the Vice President of the EU recognises this. But change has to involve all the States of Europe from Latvia to Portugal. We need Representation to the UK to put pressure on the EU to bring about EU wide changes. Then you may have both Representation to the UK and France. To just say 'I don't want it therefore it should not be' is frankly a rather narrow and limited way of thought.
look at www.votes-for-expat-brits.com
Thanks Keith, it's my point. I have nobody who represents me in terms of how I see life, my life at that that, and to be frank they would almost certainly prefer to be rid of people like me. I had my hand out as a student, in a manner of speaking have represented the UK quite well through my work, certainly the freelance work done for the UN but allowed myself to be smooth talked into a number of basic errors which leave me short of pension, social security cover and only on wobbly grounds in terms of health provision because I have treatment that started before I reach 65. The mandate is, as you say, to cut costs and sooner or later I suspect wherever possible we will be dumped. I am prepared for that, I feel sad for those who who live in good faith that it will not happen.
I think this is a valid idea, as a payer of taxes in both counties. No taxation without representation is a motto I agree with. The French government should also embrace this sentiment and offer us the right to vote in their general elections. We can vote in the Euro elections, so why not theirs?
I will be very interested in the outcome of this working group.
Regards
Nick
This working group is also looking at whether the UK parliament should have an MP or MPs to represent and be elected by, British citizens living abroad in the same way that the French parliament does.
The Working Group for Overseas Voters, however, is yet another question in my mind. It appears to exist for the benefit of those living outside the UK to be able to vote in UK elections. In a more evenly balanced democracy in fact such a group would exist to campaign for the option instead of the single direction. If the UK either changes its present arrangements or pulls out of the EU at any stage certainly many people will be in a complicated situation, but not all of us. Some of us are entitled to an EU nationality through marriage, which I am not because my wife and both children are Swiss but am entitled to that nationality with little jumping through hoops. I have thus far seen no absolute reason to go for that and also, perhaps over optimistically, I would be interested in the outcome of next year's referendum before I am resolved either way.
The point is, Keith, that if you are a UK pensioner and treated here in France under the French system the bill finishes up in the UK for payment - at the moment. Should the UK decided to terminate the arrangement or pull out of the EU we will all be up the creek.
I agree that if you pay taxes here - and I do - as well as in the UK, you should have some voice in the French parliament. I fully support the argument. But so many of us are subject to decisions in the UK parliament that I believe our point of view should be put.
Of course, if you choose not to vote, that is also a democratic right but not being allowed to vote is very undemocratic IMHO.
me neither, spot on, Keith ;-)
Don't remind me of the NHS... I am having issues here but imagine I would be as deep in health issues over there as here. It just happens that it is one hospital, all the rest of it seems pretty good to me. We had plenty of problems with our older daughter, which was one of the main incentives to leave the UK ultimately.
Keith, couldn't have put it better meself.
Absolutely Brian. I work and pay tax here and I can only vote in the Municipales and Européens.
Apart from all of the above, we have family and two grandchildren still in UK.
We will be joining in the fight!
By the way, in my recent complaint against the CLEISS to the European Commission, it was my ex MEP who helped me. My French friend who has written to his MEP twice, is still waiting for a reply.
I will become entitled to 'pension' this year. Because I made particular career choices I have next to nothing to expect, and sure I paid plenty of tax and what have you in my time but get no healthcare support and certainly no social security anything. I think a fair few of us are in similar positions and therefore expect nothing of the UK, but it would be appreciated if the country supported us elsewhere.
I think you miss the point. There are many thousands of us that do pay taxes in the UK. Furthermore the UK retains responsibility for out healthcare and some social security benefits - not to mention our pensions. And some of us have had to resort to a UK MP to resolve problems.
If you don't want to be represented in the UK parliament or to vote ten you don't have to. If you want to join the fight for political representation here in France that will be a bigger hill to climb - but I will be right behind you.
I shall respond but in my case I would like to see people campaigning for those of us who wish to give up the vote where we come from and become part of the electorate where we are now.