I have just been on my on line banking.74 euros has been taken from my account.The only clue i have as to why,is the wording in capitol letters. F FEES NOTICE THIRD HOLDER (F frais avis a tiers detenteur. This has not happened before. I did not think anybody could call on your account withot your knowledge,we have had nothing to warn us off this.My wife is in the U.K,and i don`t speak French.I will go into our branch tomorrow and see what i can do .any ideas please.

regards Bill

Simon, please refrain from posting such inflammatory comments or you will risk account suspension.



(Community Manager)

@ Gerard
Well you certainly must be a very clever person.

Where else have you lived, and how many languages do you speak?

Some of us are not immigrants. We have come here to render service often at the highest technological level, wherein English is the predominant language and our French colleagues accept that all important research and development is done in English. They have studied it themselves.

We work 12 hour days in English. We speak English in our families, and only use French at very rudimentary levels. Each day presents new challenges of vocabulary, bureaucracy being the most difficult.

If you were asked to explain nuclear fission in French could you do it. Do you have any vocabulary to learn to crochet?

I write this to encourage others to be at ease regarding language bullies like you. shame!

I am sure you will advance. You are clearly a meticulous person.
This business about how to speak local languages is fraught with bullying.
To cheer you up - a French woman who had worked in USA yet refused to speak English with me annoyed me so much I curtly asked her! What language are you going to speak when you go to Japan?
Imagine our shock, hers and mine, when she was posted there only weeks afterwards.
God works in mysterious ways.
No, I do not speak Japanese, but I do speak many other languages, which I find can only be learned on the job.
Even yesterday I learned some new plant names, and enjoyed being surrounded by French people who themselves did not know the species. We all had fun. Though there is no fun in bureaucracy.
Good news is that you have many new words thrust at you today and you’ve coped.
Regarding the poor service I am astonished to realize that the seemingly obstinate service industry really do not know the answers we seek.i wish they would just admit it and save us all time.

people can live where ever they like, speaking the language of that country does not mean you should not live there. I know thousands of English people living in Jockland and none of them can speak Jockenese.

or how about all the foreign s who live in England and do not speak English,

The people who live in Scotland are Scots. Scotch is a drink - whisky (whiskey in Ireland). If you speak English as well as you spell, it may perhaps be difficult to understand you when you open your mouth. There again, maybe this is an attempt at humour. As for myself, I was born in Glasgow, lived in Glasgow and I can assure you the natives can communicate well in the English language, while many talk Scots and some even have the Gaelic. Veritable polyglots, so we ur!!

Thank you for your very thorough reply. I am now having this matter looked into by Mr John Dislins ,as it is all a bit deep for me due to my not knowing the system and not speaking the language,but i will get there.

Thanks Bill


If the statement does indeed indicate FRAIS d'avis tiers détenteur, it means that the bank has charged you fees for the processing of an "avis tiers détenteur". So, at the very least, if you have had no such "avis tiers détenteur" from the tax office, the "hotel des impôts", or the local "Trésor Public", then the bank has withdrawn that money illegally. It is the bank's duty to investigate and explain why this money was taken from your account, and the benefit of the doubt is supposed to lie with the customer in such cases (i.e. unusual or unjustified activity on the account).

These "frais" are bank charges that are generated automatically when the bank receives notification of seizure of funds from a state tax organisation for non payment of a tax of any kind - water rates, rubbish disposal, childcare (if kids at school canteen in primary school), income tax, land tax, poll tax, speeding fines, etc. So, either the state has seized monies from your account, in which case, the bank charges are applicable, or it has not, in which case, the bank should not have debited those fees. Either way, the bank must be able to show why those fees were debited. For the state to emit an "avis tiers détenteur", it usually takes more than one reminder, and a fairly long interval between the first and subsequent reminders and actual notification of the avis tiers détenteur, so it seems unlikely that you would not have known about a due payment at some point, unless you throw your French mail in the bin, or unless they have targeted the wrong person (which happens).

The tax office should be able to provide a statement indicating that there are no known, current, or previous, payment incidents with them and that no avis tiers détenteur has ever been issued against you. You could then take this to the bank and get your unduly charged fees refunded.

As you have noticed, the state, under the guise of the DGFIP, does not need you to communicate your bank details to them, it can find all that out for itself if needs be, and it does, for anyone that gets caught in their sights (rightly or wrongly, as it happens).

Hi Bill, I would be more than happy to help. Email me ( and we’ll sort this out. If you ignore it the amount could get higher!

Thank`s Doha

Thanks Valerie,

I have looked through the link,thanks for that,been to the Bank,tax office and Marie.None could help,appointment with Bank 24th March.I would have thought the Bank would have known,just hope they don`t take anymore,until i find out what it is.

regards Bill

Sorry Gerald but I think your comment is useless and very arrogant. I agree with Nick, the site is for seeking help and advice and not a showing off platform

Bill just seems to be getting the run around Kirsty. In his post above he says the tax office say the bank should know so it sounds like he's already tried there. It's a complete nonsense isn't it. If he has no joy at his bank appointment on Tuesday I'd go camp out on the Tresorie doorstep and make them find it.

Yes, but all the bank will be able to see is "Trésor Public" (i.e. the tax office), that still won't help Bill find out which tax is involved... I maintain that the tax office is the place to go - they will know what it was for, for sure

It's not just France. I queried a direct debit with my bank in Scotland because I couldn't remember what the heck it was was for. They couldn't tell me and suggested I cancel it and see what came out of the woodwork. In the end, an insurance company contacted me and asked what had happened to my premium payments. I too found it astounding that the bank had no idea where it was sending my money every month. Incidentally, if you ever head up to the north-east of Scotland, take a crash course in Doric ... much more useful than English.

Oh lord, it sounds as though you're going round in circles. I'm surprised the bank can't see immediately on screen who the payment went to or have some identifying reference number. That's absurd. I do hope they're a lot more "with it" on Tuesday.

I have just been to the Bank,they could not tell me why the money had been taken ,or to whom.The marie said the Bank will know,the tax office said the Bank should know.The bank have made me a appointment for tuesday with a Bank official.All i have been told by all three,is that i have probably missed a payment .Regarding annual taxes we have yet to be given a Bill even though we have enquired as to when we should pay and what we should pay.We have lived here since July 2013. I don`t know if the amount taken was a fine for a missed payment/unfilled form,?

Bill, you have all my sympathy! I lived in several countries without speaking the language at the beginning and I found it tough. Strangely enough, the snide remarks tend to come not from the locals, but from foreigners who should know better.

Back to the money taken from your account, your bank can tell you who took it and why and then you'll have to sort it out with the tax office, go there in person if you can with the documents you have and ask for a justification (justificatif), it's probably an error and as the amount is small, it should be sorted out pretty quickly. Hang on in there!

well if you live in scotland and speak english you will definetly get ignored by the vast majority of scotch people, they have their own language up there especially in glasgow area.

Hi Marie, We have had no notification of this happening. we pay bill`s as we get them.we have not given any Bank details to tax office as yet.we have been advised by people that have been here longer than us to wait until we hear from them. we came here in July 2013.

regards Bill