French Affairs

I know too well it works both ways, and, there are women who can be "in your face" about it. There is a group that comes to the hotel for seminaires, and the responsable ALWAYS got what she wanted from the maitre d'hotel. Because he allowed her to be so pushy, and sexually affrontive with him. He's gone this year, and, with me taking his place, I assumed that this year, I could "put her in her place", and not be so forthcoming to her outrageous last minute changes, and demands.

Turns out she's pushing her chest,arse, and legs in MY face too. She gets right up close, into my personal space, and, two weeks into the season, I can already tell it's going to be difficult.

Oh and I'm not making things up - I had a German girlfriend who was raped in Italy while working at club med - she jokingly went along with the flirting thinking the two blokes couldn't be serious it was so blattent - they were serious and with most foreign girls on holiday they always got their way - they got their way with her to and got away with it - still makes my blood boil thinking about it but it all started out with each of them not understanding the other's "messages" and why they thought that way.

and Zoe that raises something I nearly said earlier - what is normal behaviour in one country or part of that country might/often does give out a whole different set of signals in another. Being single, blond and extrovert in southern France for example where the local lads are used to seeing northern european girls on holiday - ie up for it and by local standards very easy... the rest get tared with the same brush!

Hey girls it works both ways - my OH has had a seriuos go at me for even saying hello to some of the mums at our kids school - one in particular who was caught in bed with the local doctor who then commited suicide (the doctor) and we're talking well off the beaten track village school...! French women know how to make things obvious too!

@Sarah, I know the feeling, a woman told her husband (a colleague) to stay away from me, because I was too forward. FORWARD, all I was doing was cracking jokes, and perhaps "being one of the guys". I would have thought that, with both of us being in strong relationships, there would have been no question, but, obviously, the penchant for cheating here seems to be the cause of jealousy. Lets face it, we all know a Frenchman who left his wife for a secetary.

I don't find French men more flirty than other nationalities but I do find French woman to be very very jealous. And recently I started to ask my female friends if this is so. Oui oui oui they all said..........especially here in the south. Apparently a lot of them disliked me when I first arrived because I treat men and women equally and unwittingly gave them the impression I was 'on the pull'. Quelle honte!

I watch my french friends with admiration at their ability to flirt shamelessly and have great fun doing so. I am sure with many of them it is totally innocent & just a bit of sport really. I often just say Thank you, blush and turn away shyfully, I'm sure this makes them do it even more, especially the older chaps in our local cafe. I have a vigneron friend who is an outrageous flirt but really fun company. The enchante & hand kiss greeting I think is charming. When at a dinner party held by friends I normally smile & accept as gracefully as I can, I couldn't return the flirting though as it just doesn't come naturally to me.

On one occassion I was in our local cafe when one of the older chaps turned round to me & said in front of my hubby 'oh you look beautiful tonight' I was a little taken aback but said 'why thank you'. He then turned round to his little bunch of friends and went on to talk about me in front of me & my husband....now that was embarrassing. Luckily my hubby doesn't always tune in automatically to other's conversations so I don't think he heard most of it...I of course did but pretended not to.

All a bit of fun though. Everyone I know if happily married and I've not come across a higher instance of divorce or infidelity in France than in the UK.

Last time I was home, I went out in Galway, and had to giggle at the "howaya fixed for the ride" attitude of drunken Irishmen, knowing that, when sober, these little kittens wouldn't look you in the eye.

With Frenchmen, and working in hotels, yes, They can ask for female staff members specifically by name to deliver stuff to rooms, and they never go to bed, because they're all lingering round the bar, waiting for the others to piddle off so they can bag the barmaid/receptioniste.

I do find me here easier to deal with, though... no means no whereas back in Ireland it means "not right now, try again in 5 minutes" Instead of spending the evening trying to thwart one man, you get to do it at least 5 times, makes it all more gigglesome, because it's all taken with a pinch of salt here.

bonne nuit et fais de beaux rêves... !

i will hopefully end my contribution to this discussion with a story that might put a smile on some faces.... i got into a conversation (on line) with a french artist recently whose paintings i was admiring for their visceral qualities .... i disclosed to him my plans for france and that i was going to an eco village as a volunteer for 6 months the end of january....to which he quickly replied with an invitation to come and visit him the end of july to see the paintings 'in the flesh'..... he then confided that he actually had 6 lovers..........his lover from London had left so there appeared to be a vacancy!!!!!.......lol..... vive la france.......now guys this has NEVER happened to me in England...... namaste all you lovely SNF folk and bon nuit X

Some French men give out messages, so do some English, Chinese and all the rest of them not all of any of them. In my years in Berlin I used to hang out with a crowd all of whom bar myself German. Several of the women were 'on the game', it was their job. Off duty they gave out no signals, once working lots of signals. I learned a lot from them, it was not part of my research, but useful (I have never knowingly been with a prostitute on or off working hours by the way, so I am not pushing that gambit). Sometimes a silly game goes wrong and then it is rape, most sill games just finsih embarassingly. But no, there is no French north south since this is a country where people have gone back and forth for so long that who knows who belongs where?

Sara, sure. Catalan south and all that. But just how far do they go? A screaming woman all too often brings along other men who kick the living daylights out of the would be perpetrator anywhere. Is your French, Oc or Catalan sufficient to give a good clear eff off? It helps if it is.

@ elaine

why do french men feel they have a right to give out sexual messages when not invited or is this all vastly exaggerated?

In my experience? nope not exaggerated it is their god given right - did you not know this? ;-)

Any way will skip out of this all getting a bit heavy

yes exaggerated - just as many do in the UK, Italy, Germany etc, there are those that'll try it on regardless of their nationality and those who won't!

my north south comment was relating to france itself brian - not to europe as a whole but i know what you are saying and agree regarding any physical violence is totally unacceptable but feel that we are not really addressing the core issue here which is really why do french men feel they have a right to give out sexual messages when not invited or is this all vastly exaggerated?

@ elaine brett - yup I would have done that but being so british I was too polite and hampered by the fact the silly s*d arrived so early i was still in my- long - dressing gown - still next time

@ Fiona - yup love a good flirt but when you are single you have to be wary (I have found) that it does not get taken the wrong way (look "easy") and that you end up as having a reputaion - all friends that are couples will avoid you as the scarlet woman.

There is a distinct difference in culture especially here in the Catalan south - I had much less problems in Paris (and London) and was accepted as a single woman going out alone. But this is just my experience and the experience of other single women I know, both French and Anglo Saxon.

@ James Burton I am so glad to hear that your experience is different it makes me hopeful - as they say you have to kiss allot of frogs to find the prince ;-)

agree with Brian and James on this one but think the whole thing's better left alone!

Short sighted touch typist I am afraid. Letters will go off on a stroll every now and again, naughty alphabet!

Brian - your spelling is pants! I would divorce you if you were my husband :)

Thank you James. If I ask my Italian-Swiss wife about her bit of the world into northern Italy a few km away I will get the same answer, at least I know because we have talked about the issue in the past.

elaine, please do not go there. That is the kind of question that totally goes awry and pulls out controversila answers that simply cloud already muddy waters. I have a page open in statistics on marriage breakdowns in the western hemisphere on my laptop here and the so-called Latin countries (Italy, Spain, Portugal and Malta) have far lower separation and divroce rates that the northern european ones. Says nothing about attitudes behinf closed doors but enough to discount it being an evil Latin trait.