French Nationality for Dummies

Frances, just discovered your Oct 2016 blogpost. Congratulations on your French citizenship! Wishing you the best for 2017!

We have recently gone through this process and our dossier has been accepted. We await our interviews for the assessment of our language capability and social integration (a delay of at least 4 months has been advised for this). I would add a few points to the main statement above which are based on our experiences of an application based solely on having been residents for 10 years (no French relatives, not asyluim seekers, etc).

You do NOT need to send in your tax returns but rather the ‘avis d’imposition’ received for income tax, tax d’habitation and tax foncière (maybe also ISF wealth tax if you are subject to it) for the last 3 years. The purpose of the ‘bordereau fiscal’ document is to show that you have paid these taxes. If you have a business you will also need to send 3 years account and a comparable statement that all business taxes (inc TVA) are paid up. You also need to submit 115€ pp in ‘timbres fiscal’. Buy these at the tax office when you get the P237 document. You are asked also to submit the birth, marriage and if applicable death certificates for your parents (copies will do) and if possible for any brothers and sisters (these seem to be optional). They will also want you to declare everywhere you have ever worked (and the addresses!) and every address where you have ever lived. If you are over 60 you do NOT have to pass a test of language competence and submit the certificates but you will have an interview in french, presumably intended in part to assess this. You cannot apply in person at the prefecture but must send the documents by mail. If anything is lacking or incorrect they send the whole lot back (with a note of what is needed). if you are not a UK citizen you may need to submit a birth certificate with an ‘apostille’. This is not just the usual seal of a local certifying official but a special second seal conforming to certain clauses of the Hague Convention. Telephone support is limited (one morning a week in Pays de la Loire and they often still don’t answer) but the web site is very clear if you dig deep into all the help:FAQ pages. Good luck!

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Hmmm I think I will wait and see if the “EU” citizenship becomes an option. I am firmly British and proud of it, but if “one-track-mind” Sturgeon gets her way and the UK becomes dis-united I may have to think again.

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where is everybody!? at the moment trying to complete dossier. any new info would be gratefully received. Catherine? any news from you please.

I think we’ve all said what we had to say and, unfortunately, once the dossier’s been done it’ll take up to 2 years so don’t expect a sudden flow of up-date info, Jools :frowning:
ps - all the info is on the government site - best to get it straight from the horses mouth :wink:

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Hi all,

We are trying to get a french citizenship for my wife who is English, I am French, married over 20 years and lived in France permanently during the past 9 years or so. We are ready to send out all the required documents but a friend just mentioned that my wife’s birth certificate has to be translated AND bare an apostille. I am reading above by Anita MILLS that “if you are not a UK citizen you may need to submit a birth certificate with an ‘apostille’”. I have also read that the UK is among a number of countries that do not need for certain documents, including birth certificates, to carry an apostille. Can anyone confirm that please?

Thanks - John

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Hi John,

There is no legal requirement for a UK citizen to submit an officially-translated British birth certificate with an apostillé for a Carte Vitale application.

BUT, this doesn’t mean you won’t get hassled.

I did everything correctly and promptly when I applied for my Carte Vitale a couple of years ago but it was only by a stroke of luck that I finally avoided being totally screwed over.

I submitted all demanded documents, sometimes more than once. I received my social security number about 3 months later. I corrected the date-of-birth error on the final form that asks for your photos to get the actual CV and sent everything into CPAM.

At about the same time I received a letter from a different office at my regional CPAM demanding an original English birth certificate with a raised seal, which doesn’t exist. I immediately wrote back to this fonctionaire with an explanation and, to be on the safe side, included yet another officially-translated birth certificate.

Nothing.

A couple of months later, with still no Carte Vitale, I decided to test whether the social security and CPAM numbers I had been issued actually worked. They were rejected as invalid numbers for payment of some lab work. The clinic called CPAM and was told my file had been cancelled because I had neglected to submit a required document within the required time frame.

I immediately went in person to CPAM and took along a government-listed official translator to avoid the possibility of annoying anyone with my imperfect French. We were informed that my name could not be found in the system and that no file existed for me.

We politely asked for referral to someone higher up the food chain and a call was made. But everyone was apparently in a meeting so my mobile number was taken and I was promised a callback within a day or two.

Nothing.

I then phoned CPAM in Nimes and the lady who answered told me I had phoned the wrong number. The number she then provided was the same number I had dialled and it was only when I explained that I had gone to the expense of hiring an official translator to accompany me to the local CPAM that she softened and agreed to check into my records. She actually got back to me! The next day there was a message from her saying it had been sorted.

I soon received yet another form to send in photos for my Carte Vitale, this one with the correct date of birth but a new social insurance number, which I immediately mailed in.

A few other notifications arrived with this new social insurance and CPAM number but I wasn’t asked to do anything.

My Carte Vitale then arrived by La Poste, with my photo and correct data. All within a month of that phone call to CPAM in Nimes.

No mention was again made of a need for the raised seal birth certificate that does not exist and which had resulted in my entire CPAM application being cancelled without notification and later wiped from the system.

I live in the Alpes-Maritimes and am now terrified of moving and changing departements in case some fonctionaire again deletes me from existence. Call me cynical but I’m wondering if the odds of that happening have now increased with Brexit.

Sorry if I’m scaring you. Send them an explanatory letter. It didn’t do much for me but who knows?

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That reminds me. …

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Thanks for your response Janice. What we are applying is in fact for a french citizenship for my English wife. We already have her Carte Vitale, in fact less than a month after we arrived in France about 9 years ago and we were not even asked for a birth certificate (it maybe because I am French?). I understand that you are now afraid of moving and having to start everything over, especially now with Brexit, it might not be as quick and easy and luckily you are now sorted.

Best wishes,

John :smile:

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Hi John,

Yes, thanks, I realize it is a citizenship application and not a Carte Vitale application for which you need confirmation. I should have been more clear. Sorry.

I offered my experience, in what I consider a related matter, because I was trying to illustrate the point that if a document doesn’t exist, such as a British birth certificate with a apostille, then it doesn’t matter which particuar government departement in France is requesting it, one might still be mired in the same bureaucracy.

I was also trying to obliquely comment on some other posters’ comments in your thread who advise people to just sit back and wailt after sending in an application to a government office in France. One indeed must wait but for how long? There is no single answer because there always exists the possibility that one’s file has been cancelled/deleted without notice while one is patiently waiting, as happened to me.

Please post your wife’s experience here and how the situation proceeds. I too wish to apply for my French citizenship once this Brexit situation is resolved.

The Local.fr has reported that some academic experts on citizenship advocate unilaterally offering all British passport holders a carte blanche French citizenship without going through all the rigamarole of the standard application process.

As a 60 yr old woman I am concerned about the subjective aspect to the oral interview part of the citizenship application. People under 60 have the opportunity to write exams and prove their facility in French but us older ones are completely dependent on a single individual in the Prefecture to decide how fluent we are.

I may not be considered an ideal candidate for citizenship according to some unwritten guidelines of my particular Prefecture.

Perhaps I read Kafka at too tender an age and it has warped my world view but I can’t help but feel concerned at the vagaries of bureaucracy, especially here in France.

That said, I love France, for all her blemishes and have no intention of leaving. I just would like to feel a bit safer in my right of residence, although it’s not keeping me up at nights.

Hi there… Sidney…

Please do not get yourself too het-up about the French Oral test…

If you have been managing to make yourself understood when speaking French already… there is no reason why you should fail… It is only natural to worry that nerves may make you too timid to do yourself justice.

So, keep chatting away in French (even to yourself)…to build up your confidence… and all will be well… provided (of course) that the rest of your Application is OK.

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Morning Stella,

Thanks for your kind and encouraging words. Sidney is my username, which I should remove since our real names are shown here on SF and it just causes confusion. My name is Janice.

You are probably right. I can make myself understood in French, for the most part, and will continue to slog away daily on memrise.fr to improve. Along with the practical aspects of learning another language, daily study helps me hold onto as many brain cells as possible.

Janice

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I am quite sure that UK birth certificates do not need an apostille (I did being US born, but my British born husband did not for our dossier). There is a list of countries for which they are required on the government website for ‘Accueil Etrangers’. Your procedure may be easier for your wife if you are a French national but if a UK birth certificate is required, yes, it must be translated in fully by a translater authorised by the French government and you must supply the original certificate PLUS the translated copy with the stamp and signature of the translator. All marriage and if applicable divorce certificates also need translating, ditto parents’ birth certificates if not in French and required (but photocopies of these are OK).

Sorry for being thick, but what is an “apostille”?

Thanks for your response and clarifications. As Stella says below, you shouldn’t get yourself too much in a twist. First being over 60 you do not have to pass the language test, you will be interviewed yes, but it is just a formality to verify that you have honestly filled the application, and trust me the person who will interview you is most likely used to deal with people who master the french language with difficulty, and you might find out that they have a few words of English and wish to practise. Basically, what they want to know from you is that you would love to continue living in France and what you sincerely like about the idea. Your age and if you can support yourself should their mean concern.

So don’t worry :relaxed:

John

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Hi Mark,

In brief, an apostille is like a seal that is placed on an offilcial document which proves that that particular document is genuine.

Details: http://www.apostille.org.uk/what-is-an-apostille

John :smiley:

I have said this before but it is probably worth repeating: in order to obtain French nationality you have to demonstrate that you can speak French to level B1 of the European common assessment for languages. B1 is NOT REMOTELY FLUENT. It is an ‘I can get by and get the gist of a conversation even if I have to get people to repeat themselves and I can get myself understood’ level.
ie fairly basic.
I am happy to make available to anyone who wants them the criteria for assessment of level B1 in the MFL curriculum.

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Thanks John. I am enlightened :laughing:

Another question (hopefully last):

I understand that we have to inclose with the application a “Lettre Suivie” 500 gr., my question is: does it have to be pre-addressed to me, or the “destinataire” just left blank?

Thanks for a response.

John :smile:

I can’t believe that it is so long after my original post but I am only just now getting everything together and checking and double checking…

But I’m STILL not clear about this bit :slight_smile:
le diplôme ou l’attestation justifiant votre niveau de connaissance de la langue française.Les personnes titulaires d’un diplôme délivré dans un pays francophone à l’issue d’études suivies en français, les personnes souffrant d’un handicap ou d’un état de santé déficient chronique ou âgées d’au moins 60 ans n’ont pas à produire ce diplôme ou cette attestation. Toutefois leur niveau de connaissance de la langue française est évalué lors d’un entretien.

So I’m not handicapped, over 60 etc and clearly need to produce a diploma to certify my level. Or do I? I’m hearing conflicting reports about the diploma v the test - or are people referring to the interview as a test? And, where do I get the diploma? Anyone done this? Yes we can go to the CCI but is there a cheaper option?!

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