He makes a lot more sense than any Tory I’ve heard..…


I think the more-than-a-decade of underinvestment is what is galvanising public support behind the current wave of strikes. People are aware that, even before the strikes started, the NHS, BR and RM were struggling badly. If you are aware that it might take 7 hours for an ambulance to arrive, and significantly more than that being admitted, then you look on striking nurses and ambulance staff as the only people who are fighting to save the NHS!

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How is striking for more pay for frontline workers in the NHS going “to save the NHS”?

The workers receiving a pay rise might be better able to pay their bills and provide for their families, but that isn’t going to fix the NHS, is it?

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There is at present a frightening number of vacancies in NHS nursing: about 20% last time I looked. Nurses are better paid outside the NHS.

If there aren’t enough nurses then care suffers.

Pay them enough to retain them.


Nurses and doctors are deserting the NHS because of low pay and poor working conditions. The nurses are striking to improve both.

The Irish public health system has been the worst in Western Europe for decades. Long waiting lists (far higher proportionally than even now in the UK) and jam packed EDs. Frontline staff pay isn’t an issue but working condition certainly are. Many Irish doctors and nurses left those poor conditions to work in the better run NHS but no more. Hunt ran the NHS into the ground and the Tories just don’t care. I have no doubt they want to privatise it.

IMHO the only reason people put up with lousy public health care is because they know no better. My daughter is an ED doctor in an Australian public hospital and you would not believe the difference. The Irish system and now the NHS are third world by comparison.


Lynch is articulate, knows his facts and has a straightforward approach to interviews which is refreshing - many of the current set of trade unionists are similar.

Sadly he is pro Brexit so my admiration definitely knows bounds.

[quote=“John_Scully, post:5, topic:42015”]

One of the problems that the NHS faces is recruitment and retention of staff, although the starting salary for a nurse at £27k is above the average for graduates (currently about £24k) the job is demanding and most nurses work more than their contracted hours without overtime.

Increasing pay probably won’t attract many new staff into nursing - but it might slow the exodus.

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Yes, that worried me initially but I watched this some time ago and I understand his position better now.

I think he could be brought around to a more sensible view :slightly_smiling_face:

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:heart: Mick Lynch!

Wouldn’t he be a marvellous addition to PMQ now much the poorer without SNP Ian Blackford

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Simply giving public sector workers massive pay increases without additional investment in infrastructure etc is pointless, the problem is this has to be paid for so either taxes will have to rise or you borrow more.

Whilst I think Mick Lynch is a decent guy the strikes will lose public support if they continue and there is a risk the rail passenger numbers which are already way down on pre-pandemic levels will never recover.

Because of the Fourth Rail Package, “… all railway services have to be subject to privatisation …”.

Mick Lynch is a great negotiator, but his skills are in saying things so convincingly and simplistically that people just assume what he is saying is correct, or simply ignore him.

As you might imagine, the EU’s position re (re)nationalisation is nowhere near as straightforward as he claims. It couldn’t be, of course, because of EDF and SNCF, so Mr Lynch has to misrepresent the facts so as to support his views of the EU.

I found several articles rebutting what Mr Lynch says about rail nationalisation, but this seemed to be the clearest (albeit written in 2019: the bit about the Fourth Rail Package is halfway down): Do EU rules stop Britain re-nationalising its railways? It depends what you mean by 'nationalise' | The Independent | The Independent

That’s fine and all, but it’s still putting a plaster on a sucking chest wound.

Until the NHS is stripped back to the bare bricks and then totally rebuilt, it will continue to absorb any funds thrown at with zero improvement in the services it offers.

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His body language indicated to me that he has concerns about the EU but is not really focussed on it, his priority is fixing things at home. He seems a sensible bloke and I suspect his view on the EU would change. One point he should take into consideration is that, to the best of my knowledge, no EU country, certainly none on the west, have similar public pay issues.

aren’t the doctors demanding a bigger fee ?

French doctors?

Yes, French Docs are asking for double their current 25€ fee.

I spoke with my own French Doc who has not been on strike. He feels there is genuine case for an increase, but to ask for double is way too much.
He also said there he would not strike as his patients need him and they are his priority…

I disagree. I don’t see him ever changing his view on this.

For one thing it is clear that he has been anti-EU all along and, like many Brexiteers, is happy to offer the same tired tropes and contradictions - even in one breath saying the EU would block renationalisation while accepting that France effectively took EDF back into public ownership - without batting an eye.

We also heard the “I was happy with the EEC” argument - presumably with a “Maastricht sucker punched us on political union” belief lurking somewhere behind it.

The bottom line is that he takes the standard leftist view that the EU project is ultimately a capitalist one and denies workers of their proper influence.

I will admit that he has more integrity than most of today’s politicians and a straightforward honest style in interviews so comes across well - but there is a point where integrity becomes stubbornness - Lynch is a long way down that road as far as the EU is concerned, Corbyn has travelled its full length.

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You’re going to back this up with some detailed analysis I hope?

Not just sit back and make empty statements?

Here you go. First link is the BMA’s report on funding and the second is a report on user satisfaction.

No, you misunderstand (I am very familiar with both references, BTW).

If it is so broken that it needs to be “stripped apart and rebuilt” how, exactly are you going to rebuild it so that it is “better” (I’d suggest that you start with a definition of “better”).

The crisis in the NHS is not unique as this recent Guardian piece shows -