Help needed to use Solar PV to reduce carbon footprint

Sorry this is so long, please bear with me until the end.

I need some advice (no, I need a LOT of advice) from you worthy and knowledgeable people.

The earth is dying for want of natural resources.

THIS ISN’T NEWS.

It’s been dying for my entire adult life – the Global Warming story was true when I got my first temporary job (in an H&V lab calculating energy efficiency) and it’s still true 40 years later.

That’s the nature of economic growth and limited resources but every time we think we’ve reached the point of no return we make sensible adjustments and the world goes on.

We always find ways to make more with less. Good job we do.

It’s obvious we aren’t going to make any more “earth”, so we must make the best of what we have. Logically, that means replacing consumption of natural resources with renewables.

This, I think, is obvious.

Actually, I think it would be a good idea even if we weren’t “running out of everything”; but “big energy” seems hell-bent on stopping the process of adjustment this time!

I want to put a solar PV “plant” on a small proportion of my 180 year old roof. The structure has been renovated comparatively recently but the tiles are very old (some estimated to be over 100 years old) and replacing at least some of them is now paramount. I won’t risk putting the weight of both modern clay tiles and PV panels on the roof but there are some very well-respected “in-roof” plastic tray systems which, whilst not perfect, are a viable solution.

The roof in question is south-facing and it’s big enough – over 120 square metres.

Using NASA solar radiation data, I’ve calculated 90 sq mtrs of panels working at 18% efficiency could produce 23,000 Kw per annum – that’s enough for me, my neighbours, and my neighbours neighbours in terms of carbon saved.

We actually use 14,000 Kw per annum and could realistically provide around 7,000 Kw per annum of that from our own power. That leaves 16,000 Kw per annum to put back into the grid. (We are 3-phase with a peak estimated load of around 5.2Kva on any phase).

From standard carbon footprint calculations (not very accurate I know but good enough in this case) we produce 10 tons of CO2 annually just burning electricity so we could offset the CO2 emissions from all the power we use from the grid by overproducing and putting the excess back into the grid, even after allowing for the CO2 “load” of panel manufacture and shipping.

I’ve spoken with EDF and the “economic model” they are using runs entirely contrary to this. Their model basically says, “show the punters some payback but don’t encourage them to produce more than “standard configurations” because if they did, we would make less profit”. EDF people I’ve spoken to don’t even acknowledge there may be good reasons to maximise the space available.

Enedis were somewhat better in acknowledging the case for carbon reduction but steered me back to the EDF case as it is “current government policy”. Hell and Gore, the EDF numbers aren’t even based on realistic solar radiation data – they use somewhere in Haute-Savoie as a “generalisation” when they could easily use the personalised NASA data.

It’s true that EDF would have real financial problems if everyone overproduced to the max but we are light-years away from that situation.

I’ve also found that overcharging for panels and electrical kit is an “industry norm” – EDF especially – some installers mark-up by up to 300% of RETAIL presumably expecting customers won’t look at retail prices even though they are just a few “clicks” away.

Other installers I’ve spoken to haven’t been interested in anything other than a “standard project” (i.e 4kw or 6kw of overpriced panels overlaid on the roof) which gives them maximum profit for minimum effort. This is totally out of the question with my roof, but who listens? They also wanted to sell me finance at extraordinary rates, rates which more than offset government grants. I don’t want a loan and I don’t want a “standard job”. I do want to spend any Government money with someone who works on the project not a finance company.

I want people to work with me in a bespoke project at a reasonable price putting PV panels on a very beautiful 180-year-old property.

Now to get to the point (finally).

I am an experience Project Manager with more than 30 years’ experience and I can handle all the planning work (and purchasing if necessary). I have a good relationship with the Mayor and can get the required permissions.

But I’m too old and too big and too frightened of heights to clamber about on the roof :blush:

I know a French roofer who already understands my roof and an electrician who is RGE certified, but both are manically busy with other things.

I need to speak with properly qualified and experienced people who want to be involved in this sort of project. People who are prepared to work with me to get the job done.

And I’m having a lot of problems finding people.

Anybody out there in Survive France-land who can help?

Hi Martin,

Sounds as though you have a really good project in mind, and I wish you every success with it. However, as it’s practical on-site help you need, it would probably be useful to give folks an indication of where the building is located in France.
Best wishes, Robert.

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Ah yes, I know where I am, I think, but no-one else does. :slight_smile:

17500 Jonzac.

Plenty of time gone past now so maybe a discussion?
Reducing your carbon footprint by local solar production, but how is your electricity generated? These days is a large percentage could already be from renewables and a bit of nuclear? not many using coal or oil.

If the roof can’t take the weight sounds like some money should be spent beefing it up for the next few years. When enough people have solar they will end the feed in tariff so you could end up having spent all your saving on a bit of a white elephant?

Yes on course I have been on with eager installers, they are often see monkey do so std packages only. On one such course the “electricians” (term used advisably) didn’t seem to have a grasp of Ohm’s law!
I would have expected, seeing the farmers building sporting huge solar arrays some commercial installers have a better understanding.

Interested in the plastic trays, any links to the product?

Hi John,

It’s been a while since our last correspondence and your input is always welcome and useful.

BIPV links - Both french made and 100% recyclable.

All my figures are based on the lastest data available + projections for the next 15 years. I haven’t factored in any changes the Government might make with regard to generally reducing carbon emissions as I can’t control that aspect.

Also, “renewable” is not the same as “carbon efficient”. It’s not a discussion for today but it is a common myth that all renewables are “equal” when they aren’t. Compared to the carbon footprint of the 186 meter monsters they’re planning for Baignes and elsewhere in 16 and 17, which produce 500,000+ tonnes of CO2 each in their lifecycle, my households 10 tonnes per annum looks insignificant (but it isn’t insignificant, it’s my responsibility). Self-consumption solutions are better than Eolians by several orders of magnitude.

Finally this is the economic reality, might be carbon efficient (I don’t know) and it is “greener” than coal or gas but it’s still not really “green” : https://www.neimagazine.com/news/newsfrance-reaffirms-commitment-to-nuclear-6221925/

I didn’t mean I have a “wonky” roof that needs beefing up, it had that about 18 years ago (when they put all the old tiles back to save money!!!)f What I meant is that the roof was designed for traditional tiles with vertical battening. My roofer is recommending a modern “notched” replacement that is around 50% heavier and more substantial battens so why further increase the weight by putting tiles and PV when a BIPV system is lighter and cheaper?

I found a company yesterday (Dualsun) that might be able to help me - the product is expensive but it is latest tech and significantly more efficient than the panel recommended by EDF and the installation costs quoted so far are reasonable and they have loads of experience with BIPV. That’s potentially 4 ticks so far.

But I still need to talk with more “independent” installers who coud be interested in this project.

So, anybody out there I can talk to?

I am following this with interest. I found ithard to find anyone that was intersted in more than a quick trurn around.
I am interested for our our brewery project. Our energy needs are immense, in excess of 120Kw/week and I am keen to find ways of using “alternative” sources, for both economic and environmental purposes. I doubt we could geneate sufficient to pwer our plant, it needs bursts of electricity at a high rate ( 36kw for ~1.5 hours per week ), plus backgound cooler supplies. If we can feed back over a week what we use on brew day that would be perfect. It would be good kudos for the beer too…
Maybe you should set yourself up as an energy management PM once your researches become fruitful ? :wink:
We are down in 12440, Aveyron…

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