High court ruling in February 2019

Has anyone heard about a ruling made in February affecting exportable disability benefits and S1?

Our daughter’s enhanced daily living component has been exported to France, which is good news, I think? The dwp have told us they are confident this will entitle her to receive an S1, but due to a ruling made in February, they’re waiting on guidelines before issuing it! It’s making its way through their system as it was with the policy team and is now with the legal team to make the decision. But I can’t find anything to shed light on what on earth happened to cause the confusion in the first place?
If she does get an S1 does this mean we don’t need to wait for 3 months before visiting cpam to get her carte vitale application started?
We only arrived permanently in France 5 weeks ago. My husband and I are both registered as micro entrepreneurs and will both also receive a salaire in France from a uk company (the application to register as an overseas employer in France is in progress) so we will both be paying cotisations, though mine is a lower salary as I also care full time for our daughter. Although she’s 18 will we be able to add her to our carte vitale applications which I believe we can make once we receive our first French payslip? This is just in case the dwp is still deciding what to do this time next year! She has profound disabilities and will meet the criteria to register as over 80% handicappe/invalide.
Many thanks,
Karen

I can’t help I’m afraid but this might be of interest
http://www.edf-feph.org/freedom-movement

Like all EU concepts, Freedom of Movement is constantly evolving - initially it was only for workers, then it was extended to include retirees and inactifs. From what I gather, disabilities is one of the areas where there is still work to be done to make FoM seamless. There’s always a timelag between the EU finalising its guidelines, and individual states incorporating those guidelines into their own procedures/legislation, and sometimes certain countries do drag their feet to try to avoid their responsibilities. I don’t know if that’s what’s happening here.

To try and answer your specific questions:

State healthcare provision is an individual arrangement in France and AFAIK, currently there is no system for adding a dependant adults to another person’s healthcare account, only dependant children.

It doesn’t really work like that. If there is any doubt over which country should cover her, that will need resolving first. Cross border healthcare and social security arrangements are highly regulated to ensure that for each situation, there is one state and only one state that is responsible. The rules are designed to ensure that nobody is covered by 2 systems at the same time, and nobody is left without healthcare. So normally, before your new country of residence will accept you, it needs to check that you are no longer covered by your former country of residence. Inactifs for instance are routinely required to obtain a statement from DWP confirming that they have no NHS entitlement.
I would go and chat to CPAM sooner rather than later because this might run and run, hopefully not but if it does the sooner you get the ball rolling the sooner you will get it resolved.

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Try contacting the Overseas Healthcare Services

https://contactcentreservices.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/selfnhsukokb/AskUs_EHIC/en-gb/6696/application-forms-and-evidence/16477/s1-form-what-is-this-and-how-do-i-obtain-one

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And start talking to your caisse, as the situation will be complicated so you will need to get her registered for a carte d’invalidité I think. I agree with Anna that AFAIK everyone over 18 is an adult in their own right as far as PUMA is concerned. However if your daughter is so profoundly disabled that she lacks decision making capacity that could perhaps alter things, which is why you do need to start talking to people here as soon as possible.

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For someone that can’t help, you’ve done a pretty good job. :+1:t3:

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I must agree, and we’ll said @Anglozone.

SF is blessed to have @JJones’s swift and thoughtful advocacy ‘on tap’ in such a wide range of complicated human affairs, and it can never be taken for granted. Thank you Jane, and spare your blushes, if you blush! :face_with_hand_over_mouth::hugs:

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I’ve spoken to them and still not much further forward

I believe she will still be classed as our dependent and that we will get a tax allowance for the household for her. She is incapable of work (lazy little monkey!) And is not capable of living independently

I hope you get this sorted asap.
One of the things you find in France which is infuriating, is that one fonctionnaire will say one thing and another something totally different.
Not what you really want to hear, but be prepared for that to happen.
Good luck.

Thanks Anna,
You’ve been a great help.
I have now put in a tier 1 complaint to see if we can encourage the policy/legal team to get the guidelines finalised/released.

The issue has come about because they’ve based her eligibility to disability benefits on my NI contributions and future insurability/pension. She is and is likely to remain My dependent.
I have been told she can be added to my account as disabled children can remain our dependents for up to 21 or 25!

I’ve spoken to the nice chap at two a couple of times today and he has forwarded my email and complaint onto his direct line managers and their managers. He has explained to them the situation and the fact that our daughter is currently the equivalent of being without a state! The nhs won’t cover her as we now reside in France and France won’t cover her because the UK hasn’t decided whether they will issue am S1. The exportability team are confident she is entitled to one, but the guidelines haven’t caught up with the rulings!

It would have been easier for us if they had refused to continue paying her enhanced care! At least that way we would have an S1 refusal letter to take to cpam in January (once we’ve been here 3 months!)

I will just have to hope they make a decision quickly. The manager is going to ring me back as soon as he hears anything.

Thanks for your advice

Karen

Children, even if not disabled, are your dependents until they are 25 (especially if they are students) unless they have a job paying more per annum than 3 SMICs.
It is probably different for your daughter.

I’m not clear which “account” we are talking about here… Certainly she can be included on your household income declaration in France, in fact I didn’t think there was an age limit for disabled people living under your roof and dependent on you. Can she also be an ayant droit on your PUMA account?

I’ve used the word account but believe that likely wrong!
The French system is very new to us!
We are now set us as ME, so I will get onto getting us registered with puma.
I am trying to prioritise and a lot of time is being taken up with chasing for her S1
We are also trying to organise a rdv with an assistant sociale. She has said she’d like to bring a nurse along as well, so they’re trying to find a suitable date for that to happen.
I’m not exactly sure what I will need to show them or what they will ask.
I am hoping they will concentrate on her symptoms rather than her genetic condition. Her faulty gene is incredibly rare and difficult to explain, even in English. There are only 23 reported cases, worldwide, ever, so there very little known.
When we visited cpam last month, the lady could immediately see our daughter had disabilities, but couldn’t register her without an S1 or refusal letter! She’s made notes on the system and said to come back once we’ve been here three months. Depending on how long it takes a uk registered company to become an employer in France, we may be able to register sooner as we will be in receipt of a salaire and be paying cotisations with a top up insurance provided by the company! We just need to present our French payslip to apply for a carte vitale. It is being processed, but the length of time registration takes can vary greatly!