How much does it take to live?

(Anna Watson) #62

For a person who’s been here since June 2016, do you reckon? The link says “for the first year of residence”.

(David Martin) #63

I don’t understand your point. We both agree that the EHIC becomes invalid once you become a French resident but that doesn’t change the fact that some prefectures have misunderstood the situation.
As you’ve probably gathered I think Helen needs to apply for a CV and that her EHIC is no longer valid.

(David Martin) #64

Having medical cover is a basic requirement of residency. Without it you are limited to spending 90 days out of every 180 in France. You might have enough to pay €25 to visit the doctor but do you have hundreds of thousands to pay for cancer treatment or for recovering from a serious accident?

(Anna Watson) #65

It’s not a case of anyone thinks you’re after something for nothing, it’s simply that France makes it condition of legal residence that you have health cover. The rules don’t say that you have the option between having health cover and paying all the bills yourself, they specifically say you must have health cover, so technically if you can’t show you have health cover in force then France can say you’re not legally resident. If it were me I wouldn’t take a chance, I would get it sorted before Brexit.

(Helen Wright) #66

“Without it you are limited to spending 90 days out of every 180 in France.”

Well that’s just ridiculous…as I have never left Brittany since I arrived here…x :smile:

(David Martin) #67

Again Helen it’s simply the rules. You are either here on holiday or you are resident. The rules are very black and white. 90 days is the longest that a visitor to France can stay in the Schengen area. You cannot be a French resident without health cover so unless you have health cover you must be a visitor.

(Helen Wright) #68

Well I’m most definitely not here “on holiday”…

Rules…??? Red tape…??? beurocratic non sense…??? As I said…at some point this will re-solve…I’m not costing anyone anywhere a single cent nor a pound nor a dollar…

(Anna Watson) #69

David’s right, you know.
The EU runs on rules. Freedom of movement, which is what has allowed you to come to France, is a set of clear rules that give EU citizens rights which have to be exercised correctly. Cartes de séjour, which you’ll need if Brexit goes ahead and you want to stay here, are red tape based on French law.
The same laws rules apply to all of us, and unless you have some special privilege that you’re keeping quiet about, they apply to you too.

(Helen Wright) #70

I’m not convinced that brexit will happen…and I’m not gonna be forced out of my own home just because I wish to take responsibility for my own health…

At some point this will resolve…x :slight_smile:

(Anna Watson) #71

Your decision of course, and good luck with it if you decide to take on OFII.
You’re not going to be refused residency because you wished to take responsibility for your own health. But you are very likely to be refused residency because you didn’t comply with the rules for legal residence. Why anyone would take that risk, when it’s so simple to comply and avoids potentially crippling hospital bills - and also I think it’s a nice gesture of respect to your host country to obey its laws rather than dismiss them as ridiculous beurocratic non sense - I cannot get my head round.

(Paul Flinders) #72

On the subject generally of Cartes de Séjour and residency in general - lets face it France has two broad ways that they could play it assuming that Brexit does come to pass.

They could accept that FoM has meant that many people have arrived, quietly, under the radar and have lived off their own resources and not been a drain on the state but maybe missed out on something like sorting healthcare because of a widespread misunderstanding about cover provided by the EHIC card (as the chances are rather high that, in practice, presenting one would “work”). They could then help those people regularise their position in France and give them their Cartes Vitale and Séjour.

Or they could apply the rules strictly - after all that does tend to be in the nature of the French.

Lets hope it is the former.

Mind you, I wouldn’t expect too much leniency, I’d expect, say, if you’d neglected to get yourself registered for tax purposes you’d be out on your ear :slight_smile:

(Anna Watson) #73

As it happens I was interpreting for a client this afternoon who had got into bother with the authorities, and the official trotted out the old favourite phrase “nul n’est censé ignorer la loi”.

In this case it was a quite obscure, technical and specialised rule that had been broken, my client was trying to make a case for having not been fully aware of it, which he genuinely hadn’t been, and unfortunately it doesn’t look like the excuse is going to be accepted.

Since the information on France’s requirements for legal residence for EU incomers is so easily available from so many sources, I wouldn’t put too much money on leniency.

(Paul Flinders) #74

As they say “ignorance of the law is no defence” - however it is true that it can be a mitigating factor in determining the punishment.

In normal times I’d agree but there might suddenly be a lot of people in the system with minor irregularities - it will probably be preferable to be lenient (within reason) than suddenly having 10’s (or even 100’s) of 1000’s of people going through the courts with appeals etc or being turfed out of the country, having to sell houses etc (which might well affect property markets and communes adversely).

(David Martin) #75

Moving to France has been, in a way, too easy. I’ve known people who treated it more like moving to a different county more than a different country. I also know several families, many friends and colleagues from my previous life, who spend time between their French and British houses who play the system completely because it’s much easier than registering their cars, entering the health system or completing a tax return. Some of them have probably spent 9-10 months a year in France for the past 8-10 years but remain British residents. I wonder if more than a few of them aren’t regretting their choices now as they are starting at the bottom if they decide to take that step and apply for a CdS. Social media pages are full of people wh ‘didn’t realise that they had to’ or ‘forgot’ to do tax returns for the many years that they have lived in France. One possible good outcome of Brexit is that the British citizens who do want to live here will have to conform. Brexit or not the rules for residency and visiting are pretty easy to follow.

(Nigel Roberts) #76

My monthly estimates for additional items of expenditure:

Annual CH Boiler Service 14€
TV 8€ (Our Orange package includes landline/internet/mobile/TV for around 70€)
Clothes (including dry cleaning) 25€
Banking 10€
Entertainment 50-150€
Medication ???

My motoring costs are in excess of 200€ - but that’s because I run a gas guzzler.

(Helen Wright) #77

Anna if I couldn’t get my head round “obeying” my ex husband when I got married then I feel it unlikely that I’ll ever be able to get my head round “obeying” anyone or anything…least of all dictatorial presidents/governments/leaders…it doesn’t mean to say that I don’t love Brittany…love my humble little home…love you…love everyone on this forum…love my family and everyone in my homeland…

I keep saying it but at some point this will re-solve…whether I phone DWP and ask for “the letter” or whether I take out a temporary private health insurance…whatever…I just don’t consent to being dictated to by a fiction…

(Paul Flinders) #78

It does seem very simple compared with some other European countries.

(Anna Watson) #79

Do you really think there would be that many? It’s not as if there hasn’t been enough warning of Brexit and enough talk of citizen’s rights, and even after the New Year there will still be 3 months to get ducks in a row if necessary. I just cannot comprehend why 10s of 1000s of people would sit there, do nothing and get themselves into this position.
You may be right about an amnesty and let’s hope you are, but I suspect it may also depend on how the UK is seen to be treating EU migrants, and I wouldn’t want to bet on that being overflowing with goodwill - hostile environment and all that.

(Anna Watson) #80

Do you really not see any difference between not doing what your husband says, and not doing what the government says? Do you not feel the need to obey any laws at all? I find that a bit scary. But I don’t understand “dictated to by a fiction”.

(Helen Wright) #81

I’m quite happy to acquiesce to the natural laws of the universe…any natural law that harmonises with my own heart and my own internal moral compass…

“the fiction” is all governments councils countries heads of states etc…they are all corporate entities…registered in commerce…

If there was a “government” somewhere truly acting in the best interests of it’s people then I would maybe change my perception of government…until some purported leader somewhere actually displays compassion towards their fellow human beings then I don’t deem them worthy of my respect…