The joys of cooking meat over a grill in the kitchen, straight to the table! Unfotunately it does produce dust as well! No skivvies to clean up after! Even more than ten years ago we did a kitchen in Holland park (that was not for an owner occupier but for sale) where the units cost £65k , plus appliances, plus wood floor, other work etc. Elle MacPherson looked at the house with a view to buying! My family recently sold a house going back to Tudor times in England where the kitchen had been a stable, and the central tethering post remained. The copper had been taken out about 1955 but some original late 18th century built in cupboards were still there including a built in dresser. The new owner ripped all that out with the apparent agreement of English Heritage!
That was posh Carol, most homes did not have a parlour in the Highlands.
Can remember my grandad being laid out at home....but in the parlour on the kitchen table!
This is only my third house owned, although a couple of houses and flats have been rented along the way as well. My first house had a tiny kitchen in which it was impossible for two people to work and most preparation had to be in the dining room. The fridge was in a corridor nearby but there was no space at all for it in the kitchen. We had a Rayburn with a top plate only in the dining room that was used as well. Having had a mother who destroyed rather than cooked food, I taught myself to cook and have also had a few partners over the years who have been great cooks. So the truth is that it is not really that important whether I have a large space or an oversized kitchen. Nonetheless, when I changed house I had a large room that was the best place for my kitchen. Since the place had never previously been used as a house but had been an ancient village shop, I started from scratch. That is where I found my way installing a kitchen that guided here. There is no need for a swish, all mod-cons kitchen at all. I have a large Rayburn range with oven and two plates that does 70 or 80% of winter cooking and a large gas cooker for the rest. The fridge is a tall slimline type to save floor space and then the rest is storage for ingredients and implements. Sure, there is a dishwasher too, beside the double bowl but single drainer sink. The centre of the kitchen has a table that will seat six, just next door we can seat six more and have ways of expanding if necessary (never needed to yet). The kitchen table and two worktops are where we prepare food. Things like rolling out pasta and pastry need a large surface, I also prefer to knead bread dough there. Other things are worktop jobs. My OH and I laid everything out around our movements and the principle that I inherited from a Scots family and she from her Italian-Swiss-Germanic way of treating the kitchen as the heart of a home. Indeed, in the old north eastern Scots tradition it was also very typical to lay out the freshly deceased on the kitchen table because of it being the centre of family life.
I am a very keen cook David, and throughout our long marriage, we have had 6 houses. In only one did we decide to change the kitchen, and that was after 14 years of living with a kitchen that was old when we moved in. This was maybe 10 years ago. The joy in choosing units, a rangecooker, waste disposal, water softener a huge bookcase for my collection of cookery books and the biggest joy was that I did it all under about £8k! by being canny and buying the cooker direct missing out the middle man, the units were only available to artisans and half the price of the same units in a shop. My present French kitchen is fine, though worktops are tiled and not ideal in a kitchen, I spend all my time scrubbing them with bleach. But space has always been the luxury for me in a kitchen, at present I am managing in a teeny kitchen in our flat, but I fully intend to get the kitchen of my dreams in our next house...which actually means a huge open plan space, with a family room included, so table and chairs and room for a battered old sofa and bookcase. Your fireplace sounds wonderful David and for me, a bread oven is going to be a requirement also, so in effect, a fireplace.
Over my career as an architect heavily involved in the private house sector amongst others in and near London I saw kitchens become ever more swish. Very frequently we ripped out very nice, almost new, kitchens to put in the very latest. During the period the availabilty of sexy equipment proliferated. Apart from the usual stuff we installed garbage compactors, ranges, indoor barbecues, distilled water dispensers, water softeners (but not madam for baby), etc. The list was endless. Finishes too became more and more expensive, expense often being more important than actual practicality. Granite worktops, mirror splashbacks, stone and hardwood floors all came and went. It was good business. I lived for a while in a small reasonably expensive road in Kent where all one Christmas party the ladies could talk about was their new kitchens and quite openly discussing how much they cost. France was/is quite a relief afterwards. Dining at his home with our village doctor we noticed that his wife produced a lovely meal off a meagure 4 ring cooker, adjacent belfast type sink, and a very small amount of worktop. I know that quite a few of our French friends have really quite frugal kitchens whilst local Brits carry on as before in the UK. Our kitchen is about 2.5 metres by 4 metres and "boasts" an open fireplace, togethere with most of the things you need for a family kitchen (inc a range!). Chacun a son gout. Whilst a fabulous kitchen may help sell a house it's quite possible that the new owners will want to rip it out as well. These days a kitchen has a life of about 10 /15 years in the UK, longer here.
A very different attitude then throughout the rest of Europe compared to the UK. As you say Regina...kitchens are unlikely to fit two different flats! Ive read that the Brits are very houseproud, so many programmes on doing up houses etc...so maybe that is part of it. Every time we have moved we have immediately redecorated, but so often the kitchens and bathrooms are expensive and even if not my taste...I have been disinclined to change it because it has seemed wasteful. We usually leave curtain poles, curtains etc....because they rarely fit another house.
In Germany most kitchens are also completetely empty without even a sink! If you have an understanding landlord, he might be willing to put a kitchen in for you but therefore increase the rent.... or you can buy the kitchen from the previous tenants. It is an incrediably hassle and you can find yourself without a kitchen for several weeks since delivery times for fitted kitchens can be long! I could never understand why you would want to dismantle your kitchen and take it with you since it normally doesn't fit into the new one anyway.....
The apartment is in St Cyprien, Languedoc...we rent it out in the summer, but originally we bought it just for us and furnished accordingly. Thus lovely pictures on the walls and quality furniture etc...its modern, built 5 years ago as we bought from new....We are offering it furnished at one price or unfurnished at another price....the buyer has the choice....we would negotiate, but anyone expecting to have a notaire come and price up or price down should I say, everything, will be disappointed. They agree a price with us or do the other thing...I will take the stuff back to the UK if its not wanted.
It's not unusual to sell an apartment fully furnished but it's better to have the contents valued highly so not so much tax is paid, normally this is agreed through the notaire.
The appraisal of the contents might make you think twice, though, about selling it with the house, Carol. From the the buyer's POV, well, I bought a house with complete contents, including the whole kitchen, and the official, appraised value made by the Notaire's expert put the value of it all in the hundreds, not thousands, so I did well. You might do much better selling piece by piece through an auction, or on-line, if you have the time. Where is the apartment you're selling, by the by...?
When the man round the corner moved out he and his ex-wife split everything in the house between them. He stripped out the oil fired central heating boiler, dismounted the radiators and took the gas tank! Mind you, their old inflatable pool and broken cement mixer that had been kept in the old cow shed here by the previous owners for them is still here! One day when he drove past as they were stripping the house down, we flagged him down and he simply told us to do what we wanted with those things.
New people moved into the house, there was not as much as a light bulb!
We are selling our French house, and will soon sell our French apartment and our UK apartment. We are offering all three fully furnished, beds, cupboards, sofa's, lamps and lampshades...right down to cushions. We have all our original furniture in the French house....but it cost so much to ship out...two huge furniture vans we decided to try and sell the house complete and buy new when we buy a house in the UK. For the apartments is also nice to walk in and just start living without having to 'move in' useful if you are first time buyers...but also if you are renting them out. Even in the UK we have never taken light bulbs, toilet rolls etc...but have come across mean people who take them.
I've been in France for too long I think. When my parents moved last year, within the UK, I couldn't understand why they left the cooker, washing machine, dishwasher etc behind. In France we expect non-fitted items to be removed, to allow us to move our own stuff in. It is hard in rentals to have to kit out a kitchen, and we survived for too long with no cooker or washing machine when we arrived here. However, my London rental did not have a cooker, fridge, washing machine either. (Long time ago though.)
Many people don't realise that when you rent in France, no kitchen is included either, the only obligatory fitting is the kitchen sink, no cupboards, no work surfaces, nada.
We have an apartment we rent out long term and prospective tenants are always amazed at the fitted kitchen, then when we explain that light fittings, curtain poles and the carpets are included too, they are bowled over. Having been tenants ourselves, many times we appreciate that these things are included and as landlords we don't want millions of holes putting in our lovely apartment each time it changes hands. The French are crazy sometimes it's not meanness, it's just how it is.
Mary have just read your post....and Im European and Im surprised at your comments! I am from the UK and certainly wouldnt expect a naked kitchen! Ive heard plenty about some French homeowners stripping out kitchens, illegally as the contract of sale included fixtures, but its only recently Ive read that in Paris and other big cities, flats are frequently sold without kitchen fixtures.
I agree with Frances, its not something that is easy to pick up on. When you read details of flats, they describe a kitchens size, and because you live in a country that sells a complete house with kitchen intact...you assume it will be intact! French estate agents dont help, photos of doorhandles or the empty corner of a room seem to be often the norm....unless you can visit the property, you dont have a clue. When we bought our large farmhouse, our English agent came in with us before we completed the sale, she saw that the previous owner was stripping out all the light fittings, and Im not talking bulbs....but the actual fittings...we would have moved in, during the winter, with not a functioning light! she made him go and collect all the fittings from his new house and she stood there whilst he fitted them all back in our house, he said he couldnt find 4 of them, so she made him go to a shop and buy new ones and fit them. In the UK we complain if someone is so tight to take the lightbulbs, but I think its sheer meanness to strip out kitchens.
I think we all start with a rosy picture of anywhere we want to move to....be it France, Australia or the UK. Every country has its problems, but as Nick says...it helps so much to have the info before you get there so you are prepared. We visited France (holidays, short breaks etc) over 50 times before we moved here...and still we were pole axed by some of the difficulties we had in doing the simplest thing. I think 6 months of regularly reading SFN should be an absolute minimum requirement prior to moving to France! Your comment Frances about your boyfriend being surprised about the difficulties you experienced is not unusual, we had neighbours in the Languedoc horrified at the problems we had with France Telecom, they stepped in and sorted it out for us....by yelling in the shop, we wouldnt have dared!
@ Nick, thanks. yes, we muddle on through. Research is good but when you discover you have only 2 months to dismember all your life, get rid of everything, find somewhere for your daughter to live, do all the documentation before you go you just don't have time to do more detailed research.
In hindsight it might have lessened the culture shock but wouldn't have lessened the hassles. Yes I speak some French and am trying every day to improve it but when difficulties arise my French is completely inadequate to debate things, I don't know the systems or my rights here. My French boyfriend is not happy about my difficulties. He's been in the system all his life,comfortably off and has been able to minimise his own hassles but now has a clearer understanding about how some things in France just don't work well.
I'm on my own most of the time and as time goes by will be able to make things a little more stable though there's not certainty I'll be here after September. When you live each day in this level of uncertainty even small things can set you back. NZ is not Europe - Kiwis are well aware of that even though my roots are there and we have a somewhat rosy picture of France.
Hi Frances, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles but the realities of moving to a new country are kicking in. A little bit of research before you arrived should have warned you about the problems that ex-pats have on moving to France, and its not just expats who have difficulties renting. However we work thro the problems, often frustrated, until we find a way thro. This site is partially designed to help people with problems so that they can learn from others who've been thro it before. So as each spanner is thrown into your works do not hesitate to search the site for answers that have already been posted and if you cant find a solution ask for help on the site. Do you speak French ? It's usually the root of most problems if you don't speak the language. Bon Courage.
@Mary, it's pretty difficult from NZ to know details of French kitchens in flats. I assumed they'd be a bit different but the difference is major. Most Kiwis have no European experience, I'd never travelled there before, and the differences are not positive. French people on the other hand would find things easier going to NZ because everything is generally laid on.
Of course if one has a dream one has expectations. That would go for many of the folks posting here but the reality is that for many of us the experience isn't all positive and easy as your experience has been. Read the posts, some of which are hair-raising so I know I'm not alone in having to deal with highly stressful situations in France that would not occur in my own country.
Some folks have it easier, some folks have it tough. Thank goodness for Survive France Network. If we didn't have significant challenges there'd be no need for this site.
On a postive note: the significant problems I shaving getting furniture I bought back in June functional have finallyt been resolved last week by my French boyfriend intervening many times with BUT store management. A foreigner like me would not have had a hope in hell of sorting it out.