Is Correct Punctuation a Cultural Thing?

However, does this not pose the question as to exactly what is meant by “Let’s”, which could be a request for Grandma to give her permission for eating to commence, or alternatively, a suggestion and incitement that all present, including Grandma, should commence eating. I think that in fact the use of the contraction is inappropriate in the first instance. :slight_smile:

Agreed, it’s ‘Lets’ v. ‘Let’s.’

But, perhaps at one time this distinction didn’t exist?

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Returning to the original subject of the Oxford Comma, the rule that I was taught is that a comma should never precede ‘and’, unless it is needed to clarify the meaning of the sentence.
Really, and for clarity, we should probably insist that all grammatical examples in this discussion should be given in complete sentences rather than as ‘out-takes’.

Who lets? You need a subject. In both cases it is ‘let us eat’ whether it is asking for permission or an exhortation. So the apostrophe is necessary if you use the contraction.

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Surely “Lets’” is a matter of possession as in; Mr Lets’ car is green.

?? Let us pray, hey ho let’s go (in the immortal words of the Ramones) not a possessive at all :grin:
Let us go then you and I when the evening is spread out against the sky like a patient etherized upon a table… I do love Eliot, but he could have said let’s not let us and the only thing to change would have been the metre :slightly_smiling_face:

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Should that not be “Let us go then**,** you and I**,** when the evening is spread out against the sky**,** like a patient etherised upon a table …”

I’d argue, that at least in N American English, the apostrophe has become redundant in this context.

‘Let us eat’ could be a plea, or a very archaic and formal command, whereas ‘lets eat’ is an informal suggestion (regardless of whether Grandma is seated at the table, or on the menu).

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I may have left out a comma or two, quoting TS Eliot (since I didn’t check, the days I could recite most of the Waste Land are long gone) but I am 100% certain he wrote ‘etherized’ with a z.

Edited for precision, what I quoted is from Prufrock (argh to think I knew it off by heart and now don’t) not the Waste Land obv.

Venturing into N American English is really opening a whole new can of worms. Something which y’all should know is that I’ve gotten real used to it b’in wed to a US gal.

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You could argue that. But I don’t agree :grin:

No, it’s a spelling mistake :slightly_smiling_face: the apostrophe replaces the missing u.
cf let’s go, let’s play, let’s sit down, let’s have supper.

‘Lets’ is the 3rd person singular form of the present tense: he or she lets us eat’, not the same thing at all as ‘let’s eat’.

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Indeed the z is a common replacement for s in US English, and sort of goes along with their habit of removing the u from words such as colour or humour, which incidentally, this laptop always wishes to spell incorrectly from my point of view.

Well Eliot was American after all until he was naturalised British in the I think late 1920s

Indeed. Born in Missouri and moved to England in 1914 at the age of 26yrs.

And now curiosity is devouring me! x2

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Sorry, nothing interesting, I was merely trying to reply, but the edit facility kept freezing.

TBH I don’t really care that much about apostrophes, but I have wondered and worried why German students generally use them correctly when writing in English and Brit students don’t. In one sense it’s trivial, but to me it’s indicative of a much deeper and serious malaise, namely not having been taught how to stucture and write an essay.

Because German teachers of English believe that common standards of formal English should be applied before you can write and in the UK frequently these common rules aren’t applied because it might trammel cabin crib and confine the little darlings’ creativity*. Or teachers are lazy. Or they weren’t taught those rules themselves.

*I was actually told this by English teachers at a well regarded Gloucestershire comprehensive. I think it is pernicious nonsense. Oh and they didn’t quote Shakespeare either.

I think it is down to the standard of the teaching of English Language as a subject in UK schools having gone down the drain. My daughter is an English teacher in the UK and when writing to me has been known to enquire as to ‘weather’ I shall be doing some particular thing or not. Need I say more ?
To be honest, my understanding is that English teaching in the UK is much more about literature than language these days, but how it is supposed to be possible to fully comprehend literature without a solid grounding in language is beyond my understanding.

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They aren’t generally expected to analyse it but rather have some touchy feely empathetic reaction to it and eg instead of looking at Owen or Sassoon and how they use imagery or literary devices to create a particular effect or convey a specific idea they burble on about their half-baked impressions of life in a trench or driving an ambulance.

She may be getting on in years but I think it’s a bit much to call her a “Sorry Grandma”.